Armenian: Միայն ձկով չեմ կշտանա:

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seitt

Senior Member
English/Welsh
Hi

Context: p. 181 of Dora Sakayan’s Eastern Armenian for the English-Speaking World

Միայն ձկով չեմ կշտանա:

Fish alone doesn’t fill me up.

Please can someone explain the grammar? What verb is կշտանա from?

Best

Simon
 
  • clamor

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Hello :)
    It is կշտանալ (kshtanal/gshdanal), it means to get կուշտ (kusht/gushd), satiated.

    Միայն (only) ձկով (instrumental singular of ձուկ ''fish'') չեմ կշտանա (in Western we would I think say chem gshdanar, I don't understand why it's not chem kshtanum in this Eastern Armenian example) --> I am not satiated with only fish.

    Maybe your question was about this ''chem kshtana'', I don't understand it either.
     

    seitt

    Senior Member
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks - I guess it must be some kind of mistake.
    Still very useful to know կշտանալ - synonymous with հագենալ (which I have encountered), isn't it? Which is more frequent?
    Btw, is there a word cognate with հագենալ which means the same as կուշտ? հագ, perhaps?
     

    konb

    New Member
    russian - russia
    Չեմ կշտանա in this example is normative Eastern Armenian. It is future conditional, meaning something like If I get fish only, I won't be satiated.

    Չեմ կշտանում is present simple, if used in your example it would mean habitual I don't get satiated by fish only.

    For conjugation, and also etymology of Armenian I heartily recommend the English Wiktionary. It is very comprehensive.

    As to the usage, կշտանալ is very common, and I have never encountered հագենալ at all. But I am not a native, and my language experience is limited to colloquial speech.
     

    konb

    New Member
    russian - russia
    By the way, there is a classic poem about Ani, by Hovhannes Shiraz, made into a famous song. It begins: Դեռ մի կարոտ ունեմ անհագ... (I still have an unquenchable yearning...)
     
    Last edited:

    seitt

    Senior Member
    English/Welsh
    Չեմ կշտանա in this example is normative Eastern Armenian. It is future conditional, meaning something like If I get fish only, I won't be satiated.
    Many thanks to you all, especially konb. I had no inkling of this future conditional tense.
    Today I came across what may be another example of this tense in the same book:
    Լալով ոչինչ չես փոխի: By crying you won’t change anything.
    Is it the same in meaning? It seems confusingly similar (for me anyway) to the tense seen in the negative of կգնեի, չէի գնի. I can, of course, see that this tense is using the the past tense of լինել, whereas the tense you mention uses the present. But aren't both future conditional?
     

    konb

    New Member
    russian - russia
    To the best of my knowledge, there are two basic verbal constructions for conveying the conditional meaning. The first one is in the original example of this thread, and Լալով ոչինչ չես փոխի: is an example of the same. However, it is perhaps more informative to make up an example with two verbal clauses, the conjecture and the consequence:

    Եթե փող ունենամ, մեքենան կգնեմ։
    Եթե փող չունենամ, մեքենան չեմ գնի։


    This is what I called the future conditional above. The meaning is basically conjecturing about the future, without any implications on whether it is likely to happen or not. So it is closest to the English first conditional:

    If I have money, I will buy a car.
    If I don't have money, I won't buy a car.


    Note that ունենամ and կգնեմ are different forms, the former playing the role of conjecture, and the latter its consequence. So ունենամ is in the subjunctive and կգնեմ in the conditional mood. Both of them future tense.

    The alternative Armenian subjunctive/conditional sentence is indeed in the past tense:

    Եթե փող ունենայի, մեքենան կգնեի։
    Եթե փող չունենայի, մեքենան չեի գնի։


    The main usage is when speaking about a situation in the past that did not happen because the condition was not met.

    If I had had money, I would have bought a car. (I didn't have money, thus didn't buy a car)
    If I hadn't had money, I wouldn't have bought a car. (I did in fact have money, that's why I did buy a car)

    Sorry if I have messed up the English conditionals, I hope the meaning is clear from the explanations.

    However this form may be also used for 'wishful thinking' about things in the present or in the future that are impossible or unlikely. Despite it being grammatically past tense. The English equivalent would most likely be:

    If I had money, I would buy a car. (implying: it's unlikely to happen now or anytime soon)
    In the negative this example doesn't work. But you can say something like

    եթե հիվանդ չլինեի, տանը չեի մնա․
    If I were not ill, I wouldn't stay at home.
    (Now or in the future)

    This latter usage of the past conditional to speak about the present or the future may be specific to the Eastern Armenian and due to the influence of Russian, where similar construction is used.
     

    seitt

    Senior Member
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks! So, if I understand rightly,
    Եթե փող ունենայի, մեքենան կգնեի։ = If I have money, I will buy a car.
    Եթե փող չունենայի, մեքենան չեի գնի։ = If I don't have money, I won't buy a car.

    So how can I say these simple sentences, please?
    I will buy a car.
    I won't buy a car.
    Please let me know all possible alternatives with regard to tense used.
     

    konb

    New Member
    russian - russia
    Եթե փող ունենայի, մեքենան կգնեի։ = If I have money, I will buy a car.
    Եթե փող չունենայի, մեքենան չեի գնի։ = If I don't have money, I won't buy a car
    Not quite. Your English phrases correspond to what we called future conditional. The one with ունենամ, not ունենայի.
    So how can I say these simple sentences, please?
    I will buy a car.
    I won't buy a car.
    This would be future simple, ես մեքենան գնելու եմ (չեմ գնելու). The conditional form is also used colloquially in the meaning of future simple, ես մեքենան կգնեմ (չեմ գնի)։ Without any conditions.
     

    seitt

    Senior Member
    English/Welsh
    Many thanks, so unless I am mistaken, Armenian is quite unique amongst Indo-European languages at least.
    I don't know of any other language which would translate, "I will buy a car" and, "I won't buy a car" differently according to whether or not it is part of a conditional sentence.
     
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