Armenian (Eastern): Noun positioning and adverb էլ

Discussion in 'Other Languages' started by Simão Barcoquebas, Oct 30, 2018.

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  1. Simão Barcoquebas New Member

    Portuguese - Brazil (southeast)
    Hello.

    In Armenian, some adverbs cause displacement of the phrase's auxiliar verb (եմ, ես, է, ենք, եք, են, էի, etc), ex. լավ & շատ.

    Ես կարոտում եմ քեզ
    Ես քեզ շատ եմ կարոտում

    And what about the էլ adverb? It's use is also regulated by certain syntactic rules?

    Also: where is preferable to allocate an accusative noun, after or before the verb? It changes depending on definition? (considering that the use of an accusative noun without any determiner (-ը, -ն), or with մի, implicates in the same auxiliar verb displacement...)

    Մենք սեղանը տեսնում ենք
    Մենք մի սեղան ենք տեսնում
     
  2. AniwaR

    AniwaR Senior Member

    Yerevan, Armenia
    Armenian - Armenia
    Hello,

    You could equally say

    Մենք տեսնում ենք սեղանը:
    Մենք տեսնում ենք մի սեղան:

    You could even say Մենք ենք տեսնում սեղանը or Մենք ենք սեղանը տեսնում. In these last two cases the logical emphasis is on մենք, meaning that it's not others who see the table but specifically us, i.e. the table could be invisible for others because of the angle it's viewed from by others, etc.

    However, this emphasis thing is not always the case, it depends very much on the context. Without any context or in most contexts Մենք տեսնում ենք սեղանը or Մենք սեղանը տեսնում ենք would be interchangeable.

    As regards էլ, the placement of էլ would again cause such shifts in the implied meaning. Let's take your phrase for example:

    Ես կարոտում եմ քեզ:

    1. Ես էլ եմ կարոտում քեզ:
    2. Ես քեզ էլ եմ կարոտում:
    3. Ես կարոտում էլ եմ քեզ:
    4. Ես էլ քեզ եմ կարոտում:

    All these are perfectly valid phrases. They mean:

    1. Me too, I miss you.
    2. I miss you too (implied meaning: not just her/him/whomever/whatever but also you).
    3. I also miss you (I not only think about you but also miss you or maybe I am not only angry with you but somehow I also miss you)
    4. And I miss you (This phrase is a response to another one's saying that they miss you. Just like in a dialogue: A: I miss you, B: I miss you too. This last sentence is B's answer in Armenian. Functionally this is the same as the first phrase)
    I know this may be confusing but word order in general is very flexible in Armenian as you might already know. I guess you just have to hear natives speak a lot or read a lot in Armenian to master this and construct sentences that sound "natural" in the given context.
     
  3. Simão Barcoquebas New Member

    Portuguese - Brazil (southeast)
    հասկացա:
    Շնորհակալ եմ:

    I'm also learning classical and western armenian. Do you know those well? Can I keep asking questions? Because you seems to be the only one in this forum who study armenian, so I don't want to abbuse your time or something like that.
    The Nairi web dictionary is a valid font?

    sorry for my weird english.
     
  4. AniwaR

    AniwaR Senior Member

    Yerevan, Armenia
    Armenian - Armenia
    Well, I don't study Armenian per se, I am a native speaker of the Eastern version. I don't know anything about Classical Armenian, no grammar rules or pronunciation, but if, say, you can't figure out a word in a text, I may be able to help just because I can associate old forms of the words with the modern ones. And Western Armenian is mutually intelligible for Eastern speakers, but again, I can't guarantee that I can figure out grammar rules or anything.

    Nayiri.com features maaany dictionaries, both Eastern, Western, Classical and whatnot, just follow this link: Հայերէն բառարաններ
    The main interface is in Western Armenian but don't stick to the main search box, it's not very good.

    Also, I am following the tag "Armenian", I like spending time on this forum. In general I am very busy but if I find free time I enjoy answering the questions. Questions about Armenian happen very rarely though. Once in a year maybe. :D So don't worry. Post your questions, I will try to answer as much as I can.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018

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