Artificial Slavic languages

O

ozapollo

New Member
English, Australia
Did you know that a language called 'Slovio' has been created by a Slovak linguist called Mark Hucko to help Slavic speakers intercommunicate? It is derived from proto-Slavic, the ancient common ancestor of all Slavic languages.
You can read about 'Slovio' in Wikipedia and there is a link to the official website of this language from there (www dot slovio dot com).

As a person who understands Russian, Bulgarian and a bit of Ukrainian, I can understand Slovio perfectly! What do others think of this Slavic lingua franca?
 
    • You know, I think we are going on the idea that all these people speak perfect Croatian, Russian et cetera.

    I live in New England, a puree of ethnicities and languages. It is possible that two people meet and could hypothetically speak to each other because of vocab but not be able to, from nothing more than crazy thick accents.

    I have a friend from Bosnia, who is a Croat. I can say hello how are you (bok, kako si) and that’s about it. But I said that to a Ukrainian who came here and was hanging around my cousin and she could understand me. But when she said the very same thing, I didn’t even know she was speaking the same language. It was all in the accent.

    Oh and Spanish and Italian isn’t exactly easy to communicate with. I know a little Italian (ok mostly Sicilian slang, I admit) and Spanish speaking peoples have no clue what I say. My dad works in an almost solidly Spanish speaking city and he speaks almost perfect Italian, not a freaking clue as to what they are saying. And I suppose if you go to the actual writing there is little difference. Again, accents
     
    I saw slovio at one other site before, I know I could understand a lot except for a couple of words, but I didn't find it particularly enjoyable to read - it was quite difficult. I don't think I'd bother with it unless I really had to.

    I agree with mr. hair that a lot is in the accent, but a little is in the vocabulary and syntax as well (they're not quite the same).

    As for Italians and Spanish - my friend told me she once took her French relatives sightseeing and they meet a group of Italian and a group of Spanish tourists and she says they were all able to talk to each other at least a little bit. She also said that it was fun to watch. :D

    I think it would be at least as difficult for me to understand Russian as it is for a Spanish speaking person to understand Italian. I should know since for some peculiar reason we now get Animal Planet in Russian instead of English. If there are no subtitles I can't understand anything, if I really concentrate I recognize some words every now and then, but that's not enough to be able to watch.
     
    Sorry, my enlish...) But, i try say i think about, ok?

    My "5 cents"
    1. Slovio no "flexion" (khm..) language - it make his simple, but "robotic", "artifical" "object", very bad for direct humans intercommunication (imho)
    2. Orthodoxal Religion have old universal slavic language - (imho) best, than Slovio.
    3. Slovio may become best "Interdictionary Layer" for autotranslate engine for chat, forum, documentation format, etc. I think programmers very nice understand me, or understand me after think about

    ----
    thank you!
     
    Krossaffschcheg said:
    2. Orthodoxal Religion have old universal slavic language - (imho) best, than Slovio.
    Click to expand...
    Well, speaking church slavonic may be insulting to non-orthodoxals while slovio is neutral. Besides slovio is still somewhat easier to understand thank to it's simplycity. Bulgarian & Macedonian are also wonderfully applyable, but once again, these are not 'neutral' languages like slovio is.
     
    Hmm.. I think the cyrillic script is more suitable for this language.. And, for all the money in the world I wouldn't have changed my russian into this ))
     
    MindStorm said:
    Hmm.. I think the cyrillic script is more suitable for this language.. And, for all the money in the world I wouldn't have changed my russian into this ))
    Click to expand...
    I am not a fan of artificial languages either. :D

    However, this Slovio project is surprisingly popular. I first read about it in this thread but look at this:
    Results 91 - 100 of about 182,000 for slovio. (0.36 seconds)

    182 000 results is awfully many for a Slavic-related topic (and a recent one to boot).

    It has either many fans or a couple of very active backers who take great pains to promote it wherever they can.

    Jana
     
    Well, I can understand most of it but I can see it taking off as much as Esperanto. Universal languages are kinda pointless because people tend to hold onto their heritage, and their language.
     
    This is the first time I have heard of this, but various Slavic lingua francas have been around before. The Austro-Hungarian army, which was about 40% Slav from various groups ranging from Poles to Slovenes, had a lingua franca called "Army Slav", which even some non-Slavs learned.

    Apparently a kind of Slavic jargon also developed in Auschwitz, allowing inmates and perhaps some of the guards (some of them Ukrainian auxiliaries) to communicate.
     
    The passing mention of Army Slav was in a book on the Austro-Hungarian infantry in WW1, published in Britain in about 1973. I forget the author's name but I could probably find it out. It mentioned the multi-ethnic nature of the army, and the language problems this caused. A pidgin called Army Slav was mentioned as one of the solutions, arising from so many of the soldiers having one or other Slavic idiom as a native language anyway. It did not give any examples of Army Slav. All soldiers were taught forty (some say seventy) words of command in German, and a pidginised form of German was also in use. In his work, the Czech writer Jaroslav Hasek gives no examples of Army Slav but does mention pidginised German, for example an NCO describing a rifle as a kver - German Gewehr.

    As for Auschwitz, there is a passing reference in War Against The Weak, I think by Michael Herr, to an inmate who was a doctor and used as a trusty employing a kind of "Slavic Esperanto" to communicate with inmates from Slavic countries and I believe also Ukrainian-speaking SS auxiliaries. The book is mainly about eugenics and its overlap with Nazi teachings - the doctor was into eugenics and served prison time for cooperating with Nazi experiments on inmates, despite being Jewish himself. The reference to the Slavic Esperanto is only passing and does not spell out whether the doctor made it up himself or learned a pidginised Slavic speech form in the camp.
     
    I have taken a look at websites about Slovio. It looks interesting and even workable, though artificial languages always have problems establishing themselves. It does not surprise me that a Slovak developed it. It has been claimed by some that Slovak, situated about in the middle of the traditional Slavic-speaking region, would itself make a good Slavic lingua franca.

    Slovio looks to me rather like what Slavs whose languages are not mutually intelligible might do to achieve some communication - use their own languages but cut down on the vocabulary and inflection, and in this way hope that a communication bridge can be established.
     
    Grosvenor1 said:
    Slovio looks to me rather like what Slavs whose languages are not mutually intelligible might do to achieve some communication - use their own languages but cut down on the vocabulary and inflection, and in this way hope that a communication bridge can be established.
    Click to expand...

    It sure is an interesting experiment, but frankly, as a Croatian speaker, I don't find Slovio much more understandable than written Slovak (which I never studied at all). It's easy to see that the examples of Slovio on the front page of the website are contrived for wide understandability and limited to very simple language.

    In my opinion, the number of differences and false friends among Slavic languages is too large to establish any sort of "universal Slavic" that would be reasonably understandable to all (or even most) Slavs without prior study. It's easy to come up with simple everyday sentences whose cross-Slavic intelligibility is zero, and I wonder how those would be translated into Slovio. Just compare this simple sentence in Croatian and Russian:

    English: This is the most expensive dress in her closet.
    Croatian: Ovo je najskuplja haljina u njenom ormaru.
    Russian: Это самое дорогое платье в её шкафу.

    However the author of Slovio chose to translate this sentence, at least half of it won't be understandable at all to monolingual speakers of a majority of Slavic languages. And notice that this is an example from simple, everyday language -- as soon as you step into more abstract or technical terminology, the situation becomes far more hopeless.
     
    English: This is the most expensive dress in her closet.
    Croatian: Ovo je najskuplja haljina u njenom ormaru.
    Russian: Это самое дорогое платье в её шкафу.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    SLOVANO (S-lingva)

    How about this :

    " To es nai drage halina-platie vo taj almar-s'kafa ".
     
    Ioan said:
    English: This is the most expensive dress in her closet.
    Croatian: Ovo je najskuplja haljina u njenom ormaru.
    Russian: Это самое дорогое платье в её шкафу.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    SLOVANO (S-lingva)

    How about this :

    " To es nai drage halina-platie vo taj almar-s'kafa ".
    Click to expand...

    And guess what -- a Croatian or Serbian reader would understand this sentence as saying that it's her favorite dress, not the most expensive one. There's just too many false friends to allow for any degree of precision in a text that's supposed to be readable by all Slavs. Just imagine driving directions in Slovio that are supposed to be read by some people for whom pravo means forward, and others for whom the same word means right. :D

    As for the idea of word reduplication so as to cover all possibilities, I don't see the end product as any more appealing than simply providing a translation into all relevant languages.

    By the way, could you please provide a translation of the above sentence into Slovak? I'm really curious how it would compare to the versions above.
     
    I'd like to add Slovene translation that you could see how words do change even accross the border. ;)


    English: This is the most expensive dress in her closet.
    Croatian: Ovo je najskuplja haljina u njenom ormaru.
    Slovene: To je najdražja obleka v njeni omari.
    Russian: Это самое дорогое платье в её шкафу.


    Sounds like somewhere in between. I'd also like to see the Slovak version.


    Btw, шкаф means closet in Russian? Škaf in Slovene is a wooden pail (or das Schaff in German).
     
    Toto je najdrahs'i odev (oblec'enie, s'aty) v jej s'atniku (klozet, kumbal, skrinke....).
    It's sometimes difficult to find out the right expression for 1 word that would match exactly the English conterpart (the same it is vice versa - from Slovak to English). There are some more possibilities for that.

    To je najdrahs'ie oblec'enie (oblek - is something as "suit" in slovak lang.)
    v jej skrinke (s'atniku).
    Slovak lang doesn't exact expression for the word "closet". You can say it different ways and everybody will know what it means as it arises from previous words in the sentence.
     
    You are right that those words are not of slavic origin but what is most important in speech, debate and in language after all ?
    Each other understanding, regardless you use any words from any languages. If the Slavs will understand any foreign or adopted word from any language, I think, it will meet the goal of what is expected from the language.
     
    Athaulf said:
    And guess what -- a Croatian or Serbian reader would understand this sentence as saying that it's her favorite dress, not the most expensive one. There's just too many false friends to allow for any degree of precision in a text that's supposed to be readable by all Slavs. Just imagine driving directions in Slovio that are supposed to be read by some people for whom pravo means forward, and others for whom the same word means right. :D

    As for the idea of word reduplication so as to cover all possibilities, I don't see the end product as any more appealing than simply providing a translation into all relevant languages.

    By the way, could you please provide a translation of the above sentence into Slovak? I'm really curious how it would compare to the versions above.
    Click to expand...

    *****************

    "To es nai lubime halina-platie vo taj almar-s'kafa" - this is the most favourite dress in her closet.

    " To es nai drage halina-platie vo taj almar-s'kafa ". - this is the most expensive dress in her closet.
     
    English: This is the most expensive dress in her closet.
    Croatian: Ovo je najskuplja haljina u njenom ormaru.
    Russian: Это самое дорогое платье в её шкафу.
    ====
    Slovio:
    Tut odev es naidragju v onai garderob.
    Slovio (my dialect):
    To es naidragju odev vo jej garderoba
     
    Eugeniusx said:

    Slovio:
    Tut odev es naidragju v onai garderob.
    Slovio (my dialect):
    To es naidragju odev vo jej garderoba
    Click to expand...

    Either way, the sentence is doomed to be misunderstood by most South Slavs, who will interpret naidragju as favorite, and definitely not suggesting most expensive at all. Not to mention that odev will be interpreted as meaning suit or clothes in general, not dress in particular, and garderoba will likely be interpreted as the abstract notion of clothing that is in someone's possession, not a closet as a physical object. Oh, and onai will be understood as that, not her.

    Such partly wrong, partly imprecise understanding is more or less equivalent to what happens when a typical Croatian, Bosnian, or Serbian speaker reads standard Slovak without prior study, or standard Russian after having learned only its alphabet. Thus, I don't see much improvement over the basic inter-Slavic intelligibility with Slovio.
     
    Tolovaj_Mataj said:
    Btw, шкаф means closet in Russian? Škaf in Slovene is a wooden pail (or das Schaff in German).
    Click to expand...

    In (folkish) Croatian, škaf also means a bucket or wash-bowl, though not necessarily wooden. There's an immense number of such false friends between Slavic words for household items, which probably makes Slovio work pretty badly for discussion of such things.
     
    I think the most difficult problem will be unifying all the "false friends" meanings into just one word with just one meaning for all the Slavs.
     
    The so called false friend you will find everywhere, even in only one language!
    They are the salt of any language.
    An inter-Slavic language has to be as simple as possible to be learned, but also as rich in the way of expression as any other Slavic tongue.
     
    What is richness of a language ? Is it having several words for the same meaning ? Why ? Just because to be interesting or boasting off that our language has got the largest vocabulary in the world (as it is with English where we have 3 - or more words for the same meaning inherited from Latin, German, French and sometimes even from Keltic languages ?
    Is it the aim of the functioning of a language ?
    Or just for simple each other understanding among the people.
     
    Grosvenor1 said:
    I have taken a look at websites about Slovio. It looks interesting and even workable, though artificial languages always have problems establishing themselves...
    Click to expand...

    Sorry ,but I am afraid that you are not correct here. There some famous artificial languages which become quite popular, e.g. German (Hochdeutsch).

    In fact Pan Hucxko did do something similar like Herr Martin Luther.

    Eugeniusx
     
    Eugeniusx said:
    Sorry ,but I am afraid that you are not correct here. There some famous artificial languages which become quite popular, e.g. German (Hochdeutsch).

    In fact Pan Hucxko did do something similar like Herr Martin Luther.

    Eugeniusx
    Click to expand...

    Hochdeutsch is artificial, but no more than any other standard language. It had its roots in the language used by the Saxon chancellery, which was acceptable on a relatively wide basis in Germany.

    By artificial language, I mean something totally invented by one person, like Esperanto.
     
    Eugeniusx said:
    Sorry ,but I am afraid that you are not correct here. There some famous artificial languages which become quite popular, e.g. German (Hochdeutsch).

    In fact Pan Hucxko did do something similar like Herr Martin Luther.
    Click to expand...

    Luther didn't invent much of the language he wrote in. High German developed gradually during the late Middle Ages and early modern age in a pretty decentralized and spontaneous way, as more and more need for communication between regions developed (the process was largely helped by the demise of the Hanseatic League, whose lingua franca was Low German). Luther's work was merely one of the factors that contributed in its spread (admittedly, a pretty important one).

    In an important way, virtually all standard languages are artificial creations, but all of them (as far as I know) are based either on some regional dialect (e.g. Castilian) or some spontaneously developed high-register standard (e.g. High German). None of them were created largely from scratch by the work of one individual or small group, like Slovio or Interlingua.
     
    All standard languages are to some extent artificial, in that they may be influenced and even up to a point created by academics and education systems. Literary and standard Czech, for example, is in large part a 19th century creation, the form of speech sometimes called "Spoken Prague Czech" is rather different from it and more natural, in addition to having more German loanwords.

    Is there a thread devoted to discussion of Spoken Prague Czech?
     
    At first I thought, that slovio will be interesting project, and I even started to teach myself (just a bit :)) Problem with slovio is, that it's quite ugly and unnatural, and not so easy to read at all, if you haven't learned it. Grammar was based on esperanto, not on any slavic language. Much words are very strange, for example knig (book), din (one), jazika (language). I've read, that most words are taking from russian, so that can explain why slovio is not popular in Poland.

    I've found another language, that is much better for communication between Slavic people. Have you heard of slovianski? Polish wikipedia has article about it, and now the czech one too (since yesterday :)) Here you have a piece of text from the website of slovianski:

    "Vitame vas do stronici Slovian­skogo, slovjanski medžujazik iztvoreni v gode 2006. Slovianski jazik može bit' mnogo upotrebimi dlja libo-kogo, ktori bi hotel adresovat' celi slovjanski svet posredstvom vebsajtov, forov, spisov e-majlskih, i.t.d., bez potrebo­vanja prevodit' tekst v rozlične jaziki. Znanje togo jazika umožlivi človeku bit' rozumemi dlja libo-ktorogo govo­ritelja slovjanskogo jazika i rozumet' vjačej než tol'ko osnovu teksta v libo-ktorom slovjanskom jazike."

    Still looks a bit strange to me, but much more understandable as for me, than slovio. Do others can understand it too?

    Kasia
     
    I do, though no more than Polish or Russian itself. So why trying at all? Having learnt Russian at school (meeting the minimal requirements, that is) and taking an elementary interest into the languages of the neighbouring countries (skimming through an article or two in the local newspaper) has endowed me with this superpower. Attaining it did not take much more than four weeks of my lifetime (about an average amount of time spent annually on the phone these days) and it used to be the most commonplace skill in the Slavic world as late as in the early 1900's. So do we really have to construct an altogether new tongue? And do we really have to LEARN IT, in the first place? I don't really get what the fuss is all about :)
     
    Thank you Kasiam for the info on slovjanski. Perfectly understandable for me, a Bulgarian and Russian speaker. Have to agree with texpert though - it is much more fun to read a bit of a Slavic language that interests you and, hop! next thing you know is that you understand better and some of it lives happily in your head. With Czech, e.g., I had the pleasure of leafing through a Czech-Slovak translation of a Russian book on knots, "Namornicke uzly", which I bought in Bulgaria. Hrube ale ucinne as they may say in CZ (texpert, sorry for the rough Czech spelling ;) )
     
    kasiam said:
    At first I thought, that slovio will be interesting project, and I even started to teach myself (just a bit :)) Problem with slovio is, that it's quite ugly and unnatural, and not so easy to read at all, if you haven't learned it. Grammar was based on esperanto, not on any slavic language. Much words are very strange, for example knig (book), din (one), jazika (language). I've read, that most words are taking from russian, so that can explain why slovio is not popular in Poland.

    I've found another language, that is much better for communication between Slavic people. Have you heard of slovianski? Polish wikipedia has article about it, and now the czech one too (since yesterday :)) Here you have a piece of text from the website of slovianski:

    "Vitame vas do stronici Slovian­skogo, slovjanski medžujazik iztvoreni v gode 2006. Slovianski jazik može bit' mnogo upotrebimi dlja libo-kogo, ktori bi hotel adresovat' celi slovjanski svet posredstvom vebsajtov, forov, spisov e-majlskih, i.t.d., bez potrebo­vanja prevodit' tekst v rozlične jaziki. Znanje togo jazika umožlivi človeku bit' rozumemi dlja libo-ktorogo govo­ritelja slovjanskogo jazika i rozumet' vjačej než tol'ko osnovu teksta v libo-ktorom slovjanskom jazike."

    Still looks a bit strange to me, but much more understandable as for me, than slovio. Do others can understand it too?

    Kasia
    Click to expand...


    Hm, I do understand most of it, but this is more or less the case with all other Slavic languages... OK, I have some more trouble with Czech, Polish and Russian, but more or less I don't see the point of this language. We all learn English after all.
     
    Naravno, ne potpuno svi uče engleski. I još više, ne svaki voli engleski - npr. ja ga znam, ali ga mrzim. Da bismo razumeli engleski, moramo da smo ga učili, i zato ne može da se smatra univerzalnim. Ja preferiram upotrebu nekog slovenskog jezika ovde (maternjeg ili drugog - sve zavisi od očekivanja o razumljivosti u konkretnoj diskusiji) zato što u većini slučaja je razumljivost relativno dobra i često velika preciznost nije tako važna - ja posebno dajem prednost blizosti (upotreba blizkog jezika "smanja distanciju") pre preciznosti komunikacije. Takođe mislim da nije potrebno da se izgradi takav "univerzalan slovenski jezik", jer takav jezik ne bi imalo više razumljivosti nego naturalni slovenski jezici.
     
    Orlin said:
    Naravno, ne potpuno svi uče engleski. I još više, ne svaki voli engleski - npr. ja ga znam, ali ga mrzim. Da bismo razumeli engleski, moramo da smo ga učili, i zato ne može da se smatra univerzalnim. Ja preferiram upotrebu nekog slovenskog jezika ovde (maternjeg ili drugog - sve zavisi od očekivanja o razumljivosti u konkretnoj diskusiji) zato što u većini slučaja je razumljivost relativno dobra i često velika preciznost nije tako važna - ja posebno dajem prednost blizosti (upotreba blizkog jezika "smanja distanciju") pre preciznosti komunikacije. Takođe mislim da nije potrebno da se izgradi takav "univerzalan slovenski jezik", jer takav jezik ne bi imalo više razumljivosti nego naturalni slovenski jezici.
    Click to expand...

    well, it's not a matter of liking or disliking it, English is de facto an international lingua franca.

    and one slavic language would also be a very panslavist achievement - i don't otherwise see the point of it - why would slavs need to communicate between each other more than with other nations.
     
    Mishe said:
    and one slavic language would also be a very panslavist achievement - i don't otherwise see the point of it - why would slavs need to communicate between each other more than with other nations.
    Click to expand...

    In fact, we don't need to communicate with other Slavs more than with other nations. Besides occasionally using BSC (actively or passively), an average Slovene speaker rarely needs to communicate in any other Slavic language. I don't think it's much different for other Slavs, we all seem to be happily tucked away in our own little corners and there seems to be little need to connect more than we already are or little interest to do so (IMO).

    Besides, one Slavic language would take away all the fun of false friends and communication with mimics and hands. :D ;)
     
    Mishe said:
    Hm, I do understand most of it, but this is more or less the case with all other Slavic languages... OK, I have some more trouble with Czech, Polish and Russian, but more or less I don't see the point of this language. We all learn English after all.
    Click to expand...
    No, we don't, that's the point. Here in Poland all young people learn english THEORETICALLY. But do they know it? Most people older than 40 cannot speak a word in it, and even most young people speak it badly or not at all. They would be able to understand the basics of a language, which is similar to their own language, though.

    Mishe said:
    and one slavic language would also be a very panslavist achievement - i don't otherwise see the point of it - why would slavs need to communicate between each other more than with other nations.
    Click to expand...
    Of course, they don't. So if you go to Germany or Italy or France, slovio or slovianski won't help you. But if you go to Poland or Ukraine, then don't count on english too much.
     
    Я не знаю столь много ли нам нужен "нейтральный" искусственный славянский язык для межславянского общения. По-моемурусский язык совсем годится для международного общения в славянских государствах, потому что:
    1. Есть традиции его изучать в Центральной и Восточной Европе (хотя многим это было вынужденным и поэтому хотели перервать традицию после политических перемен 1990-х).
    2. На этом языке есть богатая литература, а кроме того он самый большой славянский язык по числу говорящих на нем.
    Я не пытаюсь промовировать русский язык, а только хочу показать, что, может быть лучше использовать возможности существующих естественных языков для международного общения вместо пытаться творить искусственные; а кроме того не слудует путать отношение к России с отношением к русскому языку. В разных частях мира употреблялись и употребляются языки других влиятельных государств для интернационального общения (английский, французский и т. д.), хотя, разумеется, далеко не все имеют позитивное отношение к этим "мировым силам" - Великобритания, США и т. д. В конечном итоге, я не считаю политическая и культурная нейтральность искусственного языка значительным преимуществом с чисто практической точки зрения, и наверное лучше ослоняться на то, что естественные языки могут нам дать вместо руководствоваться "голым энтусиазмом" малобройных "болельщиков" искусственных языков. А также не маловажно то, что русский язык находится в близком родстве с остальными славянскими языками и поэтому взаимопонятен с ним в некоторой степени и не так трудно выучить его.
     
    Ja ne znaju stol mnogo li nam nužen "nejtralnyj" iskusstvennyj slovanskij jazyk dlja mežslovanskogo obštenija. Po-mojemurusskij jazyk sovsem goditsja dlja meždunarodnogo obštenija v slovanskich gosudarstvach, potomu co:
    1. Esť tradiciji ego izučať v Centralnoj i Vostočnoj Evrope (chotja mnogim eto bylo vynuždennym i pojetomu choteli perervať tradiciju posle političeskich peremen 1990-ch).
    2. Na etom jazyke esť bogataja literatura, a krome togo on samyj bolšoj slovanskij jazyk po čislu govorjaštich na nem.
    Ja ne pytajus promovirovať russkij jazyk, a tolko choču pokazať, co, možet byť lučše ispolzovať vozmožnosti suštestvujuštich estestvennych jazykov dlja meždunarodnogo obštenija vmesto pytaťsja tvoriť iskusstvennyje; a krome togo ne sludujet putať otnošenije k Rossiji s otnošenijem k russkomu jazyku. V raznych častjach mira upotrebljalis i upotrebljajutsja jazyki drugich vlijatelnych gosudarstv dlja internacijonalnogo obštenija (anglijskij, francuzskij i t. d.), chotja, razumejetsja, daleko ne vse imejut pozitivnoje otnošenije k etim "mirovym silam" - Velikobritanija, SŠA i t. d. V konečnom itoge, ja ne sčitaju političeskaja i kulturnaja nejtralnosť iskusstvennogo jazyka značitelnym prejimuštestvom s čisto praktičeskoj točki zrenija, i navernoje lučše oslonjaťsja na to, co estestvennyje jazyki mogut nam dať vmesto rukovodstvovaťsja "golym entusijazmom" malobrojnych "bolelštikov" iskusstvennych jazykov. A takže ne malovažno to, co russkij jazyk nachoditsja v blizkom rodstve s ostalnymi slovanskimi jazykami i pojetomu vzajimoponjaten s nim v nekotoroj stepeni i ne tak trudno vyjučiť ego.


    just for better understanding for those, who have headache to read it in cyrilic.

    I would say, why not, but russian leanguage is not good choice, still for numerous people have negative conseguencies.

    Theoretically neutral slavic leanguage should be neutral as possible as could for all those who are interested.

    Russian.....1...dificullt phonetic system
    2...azbuka/cyrilic not suit for everyone,problem with western computers, etc.
    3...specific grammar like omitting verbs... be, have in 1-X.person etc. unlike others slavs leanguages.


    So, maybe I would recomended old church slavonic,that also can help for better understanding to the natural nowadays slavic leeanguages ( but still so much difficult that nobody will learn it :) so we will stay by English anyway,:)
     
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    Nobody mentioned Novoslověnskij jazyk which is simplified OCS. It has even obtained a support from the EU. :rolleyes:

    Novoslovienskij jazyk jest originalnij v tom, že jest izdielanij jako akademicka extrapolacia i modernizacia staroslovienskego i crkvenoslovienskego jazyka. Grammatika jego ne jest minimalno redukovana jako sut grammatiky prostiejših mežduslovienskih jazykov. Novoslovienskij jazyk jest podobnejšij živim slovienskim jazykom. Jest to jazyk bogatij, kojže imaje grammatiku i morfologiu identičnu ili blizko podobnu živim jazykom. (Jazyk imaje 7 padov vkupie s vokativom, jedninu, množinu i dvojinu, 6 glagolnih vremen, i.t.d.) No v rozlišenii ot živih jazykov ne imaje mnogo zakonov i zato ne jest težko porozumitielnij i učimij.

    Sample text:

    Naše selo.

    Iz vsih možnih idealnih miest, v kojihže žijut ljudi, najbolie ljubiu male selo, daleko ot šumnego grada, s jego maloj obštinoj. Ono ne imaje preplnieni bloky, samo male drvene budniky. Jest to proste i slične miesto, s žitieljami, ktorih lica sut rovno znajemi jako cviety v našem sadie. To jest zatvorenij sviet s nemnogo ljudiami, blizko s‘jednienimi jako mravky v mravkovej kupie, pčely v pčelnikie, ovcy v ovcej štalie, monahi v monastirie ili morjaki na korabie, ....

    How do you understand it?
     
    bibax said:
    Nobody mentioned Novoslověnskij jazyk which is simplified OCS. It has even obtained a support from the EU. :rolleyes:

    Novoslovienskij jazyk jest originalnij v tom, že jest izdielanij jako akademicka extrapolacia i modernizacia staroslovienskego i crkvenoslovienskego jazyka. Grammatika jego ne jest minimalno redukovana jako sut grammatiky prostiejših mežduslovienskih jazykov. Novoslovienskij jazyk jest podobnejšij živim slovienskim jazykom. Jest to jazyk bogatij, kojže imaje grammatiku i morfologiu identičnu ili blizko podobnu živim jazykom. (Jazyk imaje 7 padov vkupie s vokativom, jedninu, množinu i dvojinu, 6 glagolnih vremen, i.t.d.) No v rozlišenii ot živih jazykov ne imaje mnogo zakonov i zato ne jest težko porozumitielnij i učimij.

    Sample text:

    Naše selo.

    Iz vsih možnih idealnih miest, v kojihže žijut ljudi, najbolie ljubiu male selo, daleko ot šumnego grada, s jego maloj obštinoj. Ono ne imaje preplnieni bloky, samo male drvene budniky. Jest to proste i slične miesto, s žitieljami, ktorih lica sut rovno znajemi jako cviety v našem sadie. To jest zatvorenij sviet s nemnogo ljudiami, blizko s‘jednienimi jako mravky v mravkovej kupie, pčely v pčelnikie, ovcy v ovcej štalie, monahi v monastirie ili morjaki na korabie, ....

    How do you understand it?
    Click to expand...
    I understand it well probably because I'm Bulgarian and my native language is strongly affected by OCS.
     
    Nobody mentioned Novoslověnskij jazyk which is simplified OCS. It has even obtained a support from the EU.

    Yeah, I mentioned before, but than realised, it is against policy of this forum and it was deleted by moderators.
    It is not aloud to promote any particular artifical language in this forum.

    So, you would delete your sentence, sorry.

    But, I am not sure what about Old Church Slavonic, because acording some scholars, it is semi-artifical language too (there is a lot discussion about), created in purpose to spread christianity betwen slavs.
     
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    Just to clarify - discussion does not mean promotion. It certainly not prohibited to mention artificial Slavic languages (after all, this thread is about them)
     
    I understand it well probably because I'm Bulgarian and my native language is strongly affected by OCS.

    Orlin......according to author, almost every slavs is able to understand.
    I tried it with my friends, strictly monolingual czech speakers, and they did understood very well except one word, which was meždu, but after while, they were able to figure out.
     
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