As a student, I think tuition should be lowered

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Abu Talha

Senior Member
Urdu
Hello,

Here are some sentences for context:

"As a student, I think tuition should be lowered."
"As a parent, I think that neighborhoods should be safe."
"As a pedestrian, I feel that all roads should have sidewalks."

Specifically, I am looking for a way to say, in Standard Arabic, "As a ___, I think that..." and/or "As a ___, I feel that...".

If there are multiple ways, feel free to list them.

Thanks!
 
  • Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    I would say رأيي أنّ but you could say أعتقد أنّ (I believe that).
    Thank you إسكندراني, but how would add your "role" in the formula, e.g., how would you say "As a parent, I think that ..."

    I thought of على شأني والدًا , أرى أن .... Would that work?
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    I find online that كـ is used, e.g., كوالد أعتقد أن ...

    But I though this كاف means "as" only with the meaning "like", or "similar to" synonymous with مِثْل.

    Whereas "as" here, I think, is as dictionary.com defines it "in the role, function, or status of: to act as leader.".

    Is this meaning for ك also established?
     
    Last edited:

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    You could use أرى it's common too.
    It's very common to use كـ and بصفتي. Your suggestion بشأني is used in some dialects I think but I've never seen it in standard arabic.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    The كـ is commonly used:
    كطالب، كوليّ أمر... but someone said it's not correct (because ك is used for التشبيه which is not the case intended in such a structure). So, the alternative is to say something like:
    بوصفي طالب، بوصفي ولي أمر

    I think there was other options, but I can't remember them now.
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    The كـ is commonly used:
    كطالب، كوليّ أمر... but someone said it's not correct (because ك is used for التشبيه which is not the case intended in such a structure).
    Ah, I suspected that.
    So, the alternative is to say something like:
    بوصفي طالب، بوصفي ولي أمر

    I think there was other options, but I can't remember them now.
    Thanks Cherine, this is very helpful.
     

    lukebeadgcf

    Senior Member
    English – US
    Since كـ is a حرف تشبيه, it is more suited to comparisons and analogies. To use it as, "as," in the the sentence, "I work as a doctor" أعمل كطبيب is rarely correct, but it is a common mistake not only of English-speaking learners of Arabic but also of Arabic speakers themselves (not to say that speakers can be "incorrect" in their native tongue, but just that this usage is not sanctioned by academic authorities). If you were to say that you work like a doctor (i.e. you are not a doctor, but some aspect of your profession resembles that of a doctor's), than you could say أعمل كطبيب. Otherwise, you would say أعمل طبيبا.

    In fact, the accusative, and specifically the حال (the word طبيبا in the above sentence is an example of the حال or the circumstantial accusative) is used to convey the meaning of the English "as," in many cases. It is not always however, the most idiomatic choice.

    "As a student, I think tuition should be lowered."
    "As a parent, I think that neighborhoods should be safe."
    "As a pedestrian, I feel that all roads should have sidewalks."
    I think that these are cases where, although we could use حال, more idiomatic options are those stipulated above as well as:

    بصفتي طالبا/والدا/مارّا
    باعتباري طالبا/والدا/مارّا

    Nonetheless, this same idea can be expressed using حال. For example:

    أرى والدا أن الأحياء يجب أن تكون آمنة As a parent, I think neighborhoods should be safe.

    This is theoretical. I think if you actually said this in speech, it might be slightly confusing you would probably have to say something like:

    أرى والدا - يعني بصفتي والدا - أن الأحياء يجب أن تكون آمنة

    I hope that is helpful.
     

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    Nobody would understand أرى والدا أن الأحياء يجب أن تكون آمنة or very very few. I wouldn't know what you meant. This structure is used for things like أرى موقنًا أنّ...ـ (I believe firmly that...)
    If you were to say that you work like a doctor (i.e. you are not a doctor, but some aspect of your profession resembles that of a doctor's), than you could say أعمل كطبيب.
    Again, classical usage aside, nobody uses this now, instead we would say أعمل كالطبيب\كالأطبّاء (I work like a doctor [does] / like doctors [do]). I am not sure why it sounds wrong to me without the definite article.
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    Nobody would understand أرى والدا أن الأحياء يجب أن تكون آمنة or very very few. I wouldn't know what you meant. This structure is used for things like أرى موقنًا أنّ...ـ (I believe firmly that...)
    How about أرى - بما أنني والد - أن الأحياء ينبغي أن تكون آمنة ?
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    How about أرى - بما أنني والد - أن الأحياء ينبغي أن تكون آمنة ?
    محمد العدناني in his معجم الأغلاط اللغوية المعاصرة has harsh words to say about this construction:
    ويقولون: بما أننا أَتمَمْنا استعدادَنا للمعركةِ الفاصلةِ، فعلينا أن نخوضَ غِمارها فورًا. والصوابُ: ولمّا كُنّا قد أتممنا استعدادَنا للمعركةِ الفاصلةِ، فإنّ علينا أن نخوضَ غمارَها فورًا. وقد حاولتُ البحث عن أديبٍ عملاقٍ من شيوخ الأدب العربيِّ الحديثِ، استعمَلَ الجملةَ الأُولى، فذهبتْ بُحوثي أدراجَ الرّياحِ؛ لأنها جملةٌ دخيلةٌ على اللغة العربية، نُكِبَتْ بها الضّادُ بأقلام التّراجمةِ عن الإنكليزية وغيرها من اللغات الأجنبية .....
    But I don't know if his suggestion of لمّا works in our situation:ولما كنت أبًا ...
    Perhaps it is best to say something like إني أبٌ ولذا أرى ...
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    محمد العدناني in his معجم الأغلاط اللغوية المعاصرة ...
    Only now did I think of looking up what he had to say about the usage of كـ here.
    ويخطّئون من يقول: أنا كعربيٍّ أَرفُضُ الذُّلَّ، ويروْنَ أنّ الصّوابَ هو: أنا أرفُضُ الذُّلَّ لأنني عربيٌّ، أو: أنا - العربيَّ - أرفُضُ الذُّلَّ، أي: أخُصُّ العربيَّ.
    ولكن:
    ...
    وقرّرتْ لجنةُ الأصول، ووافق المجلس على ما يأتي: «تُجيزُ اللجنةُ قولاً مثلَ قول الكتّاب: أنا كباحثٍ أقرّر كذا. على أحد وجهين:
    (أ) أن تكون الكاف للتشبيه
    (ب) أو أن تكون الكاف زائدة.
    وقد أُجِيزَ القرارُ بالأكثرية، ...
    The أنا -العربــيَّ - أرفض الذُّلَّ structure is very interesting.
     

    barkoosh

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Lebanon
    While محمد العدناني says that بما أن is wrong, others say it's right. Plus, it's commonly used and widely accepted.

    As for the use of كـ in this context, it's commonly used and it's okayed by the Arabic Academy. Still, some people don't like using it.
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    Thanks Barkoosh. I'm not a native speaker so I don't have intuition about the language, but I prefer بما أن to كـ in this context.
     
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