as more natural and pure than civilized man ...

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shorty1

Senior Member
Korean
Dear all,


Source: reading book published in Korea(Teps book)
The reverberations of the romantic era can be said to yet continue to echo in our time.
Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage as more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.
...

What does the bolded "as" mean? :confused:

I think it sounds more natural when the "as" is left out.


Thank you for your help.
 
  • shorty1

    Senior Member
    Korean
    Hello,

    With the "as" left out, it wouldn't sound English. The "as" tells us that Rousseau thought the noble savage was more natural and pure than civilized man.
    Thank you very much, sound shift.


    On second thought, I interpret the sentence as follows:

    Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage being more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.

    I see "the noble savage being more natural and pure than civilized man" as the complement of "Rousseau's admiration"


    My interpretation is wrong?
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Hello,

    I think your interpretation is right, but if I wanted to use "being" I would have to say, "Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage for being ..." - but I see nothing wrong with the version with "as".
     

    shorty1

    Senior Member
    Korean
    Sorry but I didn't catch the feeling of "as" in the sentence, sound shift. :eek:
    I think this is a limit to my interpretation as a non-native speaker.

    This usage for "as" is in the dictionary?
     

    shorty1

    Senior Member
    Korean
    Adverb definition 3, I think: thought or considered to be: the square as distinct from the rectangle.
    Thank you very much, sound shift and RM1.

    Now I think I've got the feeling of the "as".

    Let me give it a shot:

    Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage being likely to be more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.

    "Be likely to" is similar to the definition?
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage being likely to be more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.
    Well, I'd like to say two things here. 1) This sentence is not idiomatic English. 2) The "as" in the original sentence carries no nuance of "likely".

    If I paraphrase the original sentence, it may become clearer: "Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage, which derived from the fact that he considered the noble savage to be more natural and pure than civilized man, ....". Unfortunately, I can't point to any of the dictionary's examples of "as". There isn't enough space for dictionaries to show every possible use of this word.
     

    e2efour

    Senior Member
    UK English
    The use of as is sometimes used after admire.
    Examples:
    I admire him as a writer
    .
    I admire her as a perfect mother.

    This is just basic English. If you want to analyse as, you might see it as a preposition (the forum dictionary, for example, gives in the role/function of).

    The original quotation has as followed by an adjective. You can think of it as Rousseau admiring the noble savage as someone who ...
    The as introduces the object complement of the verb.
    Compare: He considered him a genius and He regarded him as a genius. Some verbs take as before the object.
     
    Last edited:

    shorty1

    Senior Member
    Korean
    Thank you very much, sound shift and e2efour.


    I think I almost understand it.

    I changed your sentence a bit as follows:
    Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage he thought would be more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.


    My interpretation sounds natural as well, right?


    Cross-posted with e2efour.
     
    Last edited:

    shorty1

    Senior Member
    Korean
    I'm leaning towards the definition MR1 suggested: Adverb definition 3, I think: thought or considered to be: the square as distinct from the rectangle..

    #1. Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage he thought would be more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.
    #2. Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage I think would have been more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.
    #3. Rousseau's admiration of the noble savage people thought would be more natural and pure than civilized man is reflected in the exalting of native peoples.

    I wonder who considers the noble savage to be natural and pure than civilized man, Rousseau or I(=the speaker) or people. :confused:
     
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