barring revolution, like a real one

VicNicSor

Banned
Russian
After all, freedom and prosperity are not their goal. In fact those things are obstacles to achieving the true objective — unlimited power for the leftist nomenclature. I'm convinced that California will continue circling the drain, and barring revolution, like a real one, with all the intended bad stuff for the ruling class, there's no coming out of it.
video on YouTube

Wouldn't you think that using "a" with "revolution" would be a better choice here? (considering he goes on with "a real one")
Thank you.
 
  • bibliolept

    Senior Member
    AE, Español
    Certainly it could be written as "barring a revolution," I don't find "barring revolution" at all odd or awkward, even given the use of the article in the following clause.

    You could almost make the argument that rhetorically the use of "revolution" without the "a" better justifies the emphasis/clarification of "a real one." This is true especially since revolution in its uncountable sense is so often used to describe more prosaic changes.
     
    Last edited:

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Then, likewise, what about omitting the article before "one": "and barring revolution, like real one," — would that be possible?...
     

    bibliolept

    Senior Member
    AE, Español
    Then, likewise, what about omitting the article before "one": "and barring revolution, like real one," — would that be possible?...
    Now that would sound wrong for this use of "one."
    But you could say "barring revolution, like real revolution." The message is almost the same as the original phrasing, except that the addition of the article "a' ("a real one" or "a real revolution") suggests that what the speaker is referring to is a literal revolution, as in an armed conflict or other use of force internally to effect a regime change.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Now that would sound wrong for this use of "one."
    But you could say "barring revolution, like real revolution." The message is almost the same as the original phrasing, except that the addition of the article "a' ("a real one" or "a real revolution") suggests that what the speaker is referring to is a literal revolution, as in an armed conflict or other use of force internally to effect a regime change.
    The speaker is referring to a real drain. ;)
    California will continue circling the (metaphorical) drain, and like a real drain, there's no coming out of it.
    We seem to come out of revolutions.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    See post #8.
    California is circling the drain, and there's no coming out of it.
    All the rest is "decoration." The speaker has mixed two ideas together - there's no metaphorical revolution. "like a real one" is inserted in the wrong place during the speech act, a self-interruption.

    I'm convinced that California will continue circling the drain, and like a real one, there's no coming out of it ((barring revolution with all the intended bad stuff for the ruling class).

    "barring revolution, like a real revolution" is the impossible reading (which is why it seems like there should be an "a" there).
     
    Last edited:

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    "like a real one" is inserted in the wrong place during the speech act, a self-interruption.
    There's vloggers who speak off the cuff, and those who read speech made in advance. This is definitely the latter one so I don't think he wouldn't have fixed that.

    Besides, why would you assume that something is in the wrong place, when if we assume it is in the right place instead, we then have a logical chain of thought? "A real revolution" emphasizes that the revolution must be real — with the bad stuff for the ruling class.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Barring revolution with its bad consequences, California is going down the drain and nothing will stop it from going down the drain (which is the way a real drain works).
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    There's the obvious and only, grammatically, antecedent for "one", which is "revolution". To refer it back farther to "drain" still sounds like a stretch to me, sorry.
     
    Last edited:

    bibliolept

    Senior Member
    AE, Español
    The way I read it, "one" refers to revolution. Unless the article discusses literal sewers or the like, I can't see any reason why the speaker would be referencing a "real" drain. "Circling the drain" is a common, albeit melodramatic, idiom.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Let me ask you then, what the final "it" refers to. What is there no coming out of? A real drain or a real revolution?
     

    bibliolept

    Senior Member
    AE, Español
    Let me ask you then, what the final "it" refers to. What is there no coming out of? A real drain or a real revolution?
    The final "it" refers to the figurative "circling the drain" — which in itself is an idiom equivalent to saying "doomed" or "one foot in the grave" — and more broadly to whatever it is that the writer is presenting as California's plight.

    So no one ever comes out of the metaphorical drain? No business that is "going down the drain" ever recovers?
    Not without a "real" revolution, at least following the writer's logic?
     

    Steven David

    Senior Member
    Standard General American English USA
    Then, likewise, what about omitting the article before "one": "and barring revolution, like real one," — would that be possible?...
    We speak about revolution as an event. However, we also speak about revolution as an idea or a concept. So we can speak about revolution in general terms. This makes it so that using an article is not necessary. It depends on how the speaker, or the writer, is thinking about the term "revolution".

    The indefinite article is required before "real one" in the phrase "like a real one" because we speak of one of some or many. And "one" refers to "one revolution".

    In more general terms, we more often, or usually, use an article before "revolution".

    Then, again, a sentence like this is possible:

    "They were speaking about revolution, and then one day it happened."

    In the above sentence, we speak about revolution as an idea or a concept.

    In the next example, we speak about revolution as an event.

    "They were speaking about having a revolution, and then one day it happened."

    Articles ... :rolleyes: o_O
     
    Last edited:
    < Previous | Next >
    Top