Basque: Freedom to the Basques!

  • Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    Illerdi

    According to the little Basque I know I would translate "Askatasuna euskaldunentzako" as:

    aska=free
    askatasun=freedom
    askatasuna= the freedom we are talking about (which should be given to the Basques)

    euskal=the Basque language (although I am not sure about the suffix -al, as the Basque language is euskara)
    euskaldun=he who owns the Basque language, that is who can speak it, that is a Basque person
    euskaldunentza?=which will benefit to the Basque person
    I guess the plural is indicated by the -k, so euskaldunentzak would be "those who can speak Basque and are benefiting of" or shorter "the Basques who are benefiting of".
    Of what? Of askatasuna of course.

    I don't know the function of the final -o.

    Please tell me if something in my demonstration is wrong, eskerrik asko.


    "Euskaldunak askatu" is much more easier.

    Euskaldunak is "those who possess the Basque language" i.e. the Basques, and askatu is from the radical aska free.
    But I don't know the exact meaning of -tu.
     

    Breogan

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish and Galician
    Illerdi

    According to the little Basque I know I would translate "Askatasuna euskaldunentzako" as:

    aska=free
    askatasun=freedom
    askatasuna= the freedom we are talking about (which should be given to the Basques)

    euskal=the Basque language (although I am not sure about the suffix -al, as the Basque language is euskara)
    euskaldun=he who owns the Basque language, that is who can speak it, that is a Basque person
    euskaldunentza?=which will benefit to the Basque person
    I guess the plural is indicated by the -k, so euskaldunentzak would be "those who can speak Basque and are benefiting of" or shorter "the Basques who are benefiting of".
    Of what? Of askatasuna of course.

    I don't know the function of the final -o.

    Please tell me if something in my demonstration is wrong, eskerrik asko.

    With the permission of illerdi...;)

    Euskal-dun-en-tzako

    "Tzako" indicates here "to", so don't separate the "o".



    "Euskaldunak askatu" is much more easier.

    Euskaldunak is "those who possess the Basque language" i.e. the Basques, and askatu is from the radical aska free.
    But I don't know the exact meaning of -tu.
    "Askatu" is infinitive, acting here as imperative.
     

    illerdi

    Senior Member
    Basque Country, Euskara
    Thanks Breogan!

    you have explained it very well. :)

    But one more thing for Ander:

    Euskaldun also means a person who lives in the Basque Country.

    Euskal Herrian bizi naiz, euskalduna naiz orduan.
    I live in the Basque Country so I am Basque.
     

    yujuju

    Member
    Spanish & Basque
    Hello people!

    I'd like to notice that it it also possible to say "Askatasuna euskaldunentzat"

    Both are normally heard but, the grammatically strict one will be the one finished in "-tzat", "-tzako" is used when a noun continues the sentence, for example "euskaldunentzako askatasuna" but "euskaldunentzat".

    But I repeat that in spoken language both are heard.

    ps: free = aske
    ps2: once I read basques where so proud of their language, they took the word "euskaldun" (that originally means the one who possesses (speaks) basque) to refer to themselves, but nowadays people don't think of that word with the first meaning, as illerdi told it is just "basque person".
    ps3: another famouse sentece is used to mean that: "Gora Euskal Herria askatuta!" meaning something like "Long live to Basque Country free!".

    Agur!
     

    Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    Euskaldun also means a person who lives in the Basque Country.

    That is something new to me. In the French Basque Country a number of people are either Gascons or come from other parts of France for example as pensioners. Those people although living in the Basque Country do not consider themselves as Basque. We only consider as Basque people who usually (not always) have a Basque family name and who speak Basque or are descendants of Basque speaking people.

    I heard that in the Spanish Basque Country many people immigrated from other parts of Spain so I doubt that they are actually Basques.
     

    Breogan

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish and Galician
    That is something new to me. In the French Basque Country a number of people are either Gascons or come from other parts of France for example as pensioners. Those people although living in the Basque Country do not consider themselves as Basque. We only consider as Basque people who usually (not always) have a Basque family name and who speak Basque or are descendants of Basque speaking people.

    I heard that in the Spanish Basque Country many people immigrated from other parts of Spain so I doubt that they are actually Basques.

    This question is far away from being lingüistic, so no comment.
    Anyway, how would you say "Basque" in Basque?

    Take into account the word "Basque" comes from "uascus", if I remember properly, a Latin deformation of the word eusk(...), so we are again in the same point. Obviously in that time all Basques spoke Basque and they were "Euskaldunak".

    I suppose Romans just took the inicial letters and leave the rest...:rolleyes:
     

    yujuju

    Member
    Spanish & Basque
    Let's sum up:

    - euskara/ euskera: Basque (language)
    - euskaldun: Basque (person)
    (originally those who speak (possess) Basque, and that's also its meaning, but when used to a person meaning where you are from, you don't think of the original meaning, ok?)
    - euskal: basque (adjective)

    Ander, I think illerdi wanted to say that the term "euskaldun" is used to the people living in Basque Country with the meaning of "people of the Basque Country". Well, that's the use of the word indeed.
     

    illerdi

    Senior Member
    Basque Country, Euskara
    Ander, I think illerdi wanted to say that the term "euskaldun" is used to the people living in Basque Country with the meaning of "people of the Basque Country". Well, that's the use of the word indeed.

    Yes, that's what I wanted to say.

    And I have also checked that "Askatasuna euskaldunentzako" is correct, even if "Askatasuna euskaldunentzat" sounds better (maybe).

    Janari hau txakurrentzat da.
    Janari hau txakurrentzako da.
    Janari hau txakurrendako da.
    (This food if for the dogs)

    I always use the last two and in those cases a noun does not continue the sentence. We always use -tzako, -dako in my dialect.
     

    yujuju

    Member
    Spanish & Basque
    Aha, ok!

    For me both sound well :p

    I only checked the "batua", but each euskalki has its differences, so it's ok, no problem
     

    Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    Yes, that's what I wanted to say.

    Ok, your opinion then.

    And I have also checked that "Askatasuna euskaldunentzako" is correct, even if "Askatasuna euskaldunentzat" sounds better (maybe).

    My Basque grammar says euskaldunentzat whith the suffix -entzat meaning "in the interest of, to the benefit of", which is called the prolative case.

    I just wonder where the plural is, as the sentence to be translated has Basques in the plural.
     

    yujuju

    Member
    Spanish & Basque
    They are different, on the one hand we have prolative case (Zertzat), meaning somenthing like "take x as"/"think X is", and it has only the indefinite (mugagabe) form, for example:

    Medikutzat hartu nuen = I took him as a doctor

    On the other hand, we have destinative case (Norentzat), meaning "for who" and it changes with plural as normal:

    -arentzat (sing.): Janari hau txakurrarentzat da. = This food is for the dog_.
    -entzat (pl.): Janari hau txakurrentzat da. = This food is for the dogs.
    -(r)entzat (mugagabe): Janari hau edozein txakurrentzat da. = This food is for any dog_.
    (that "r" in brakets is used when the noun finishes in a vowel)

    So don't mix them, here we are using Norentzat (euskaldunentzat), so it is already in plural, and it is not Zertzat case which doesn't have plural.

    Agur!
     

    Ander

    Senior Member
    France
    Yujuju

    Thank you for your explanation about the plural meaning of euskaldunentzat.

    Not to complicate matters I did not mention the other suffix of the prolative case which is (as you mentioned) -tzat "as" or "instead of".

    The little Basque grammar I have (by a Basque teacher at Toulouse University) does not distinguish between prolative "-tzat" and destinative "-entzat" and gives them the same case name.

    So the singular of "askatasuna euskaldunentzat" would be "askatasuna euskaldunarentzat". Right?
     
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