Bavarian-Italian-crossover [cooking]

cypi

New Member
Hungarian
I had to translate the script of a Bavarian cooking show to English and I'm not sure whether the word 'crossover' is used correctly here. The whole sentence would be "I am cooking my Bavarian-Italian-crossover today, outside Schuhbeck, inside al dente or the other way round." (Schuhbeck is a Bavarian chef and he is talking about himself.)
 
  • PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    The word used is "fusion" - but "crossover", which is mainly used of cars, is possible.
     

    cypi

    New Member
    Hungarian
    Because I am not interested in the question whether it is understandable in German or not (it is and I know it as a fact), my question was whether I can use it in an English text which will be listened to by an English audience or not?
     

    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    Because I am not interested in the question whether it is understandable in German or not (it is and I know it as a fact), my question was whether I can use it in an English text which will be listened to by an English audience or not?
    The best people to advise you on that are people who have a good knowledge of German combined with a good knowledge of English. They are the only ones who can tell what English expression best conveys the sense of the German. 'Best conveys' means taking both ends of the equation properly into account.
    The German forum is where you are more likely to find people with sufficient skill in both languages.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    I will tell you this part makes no sense, even as a joke.

    outside Schuhbeck, inside al dente or the other way round." (Schuhbeck is a Bavarian chef and he is talking about himself.)


    Neither "outside Schuhbeck" nor "inside Schuhbeck" has any meaning I can discern. The same is actually true for "al dente".
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    Neither "outside Schuhbeck" nor "inside Schuhbeck" has any meaning I can discern. The same is actually true for "al dente".
    I took it to mean:
    "I am cooking my Bavarian-Italian fusion today, outside [it is in the style of] Schuhbeck, inside [the texture is] al dente or the other way round."
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    Outside [the texture is] al dente, inside [it is in the style of] Schuhbeck.

    Food criticism vocabulary seems to have a life of its own, comparable, in some cases, to the world of perfume and high-fashion.

    The other problem is that we don't know what the food is - it might be a whole wild boar en croute or some small hors d'oeuvre
     
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    cypi

    New Member
    Hungarian
    wandle: sorry but I beg to differ. I already know the meaning of the word "crossover" (it is indeed fusion, as PaulQ has already stated) in the German text, so I am not sure why I should write this question into the German group. My only question was whether it would be understandable for people with English as their first language, that the chef meant a mixture of Italian and Bavarian food.
    The part with "outside Schuhbeck, inside al dente" refers to the food he is about prepare and it doesn't really matter what he is cooking, he is just emphasizing that it is Italian-Bavarian.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    wandle: sorry but I beg to differ. I already know the meaning of the word "crossover" (it is indeed fusion, as PaulQ has already stated) in the German text, so I am not sure why I should write this question into the German group. My only question was whether it would be understandable for people with English as their first language, that the chef meant a mixture of Italian and Bavarian food.
    The part with "outside Schuhbeck, inside al dente" refers to the food he is about prepare and it doesn't really matter what he is cooking, he is just emphasizing that it is Italian-Bavarian.
    Would 'outside Shuhbeck, inside al dente' mean anything to a native speaker of English? No. And 'My Bavarian-Italian crossover' would make me think of a crossover car designed by BMW and Fiat.
     

    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    . My only question was whether it would be understandable for people with English as their first language, that the chef meant a mixture of Italian and Bavarian food.
    But if 'crossover' is the German term, someone who does not know what it refers to cannot say whether the same term will convey the same meaning in English.

    There are four elements in the equation: German term and German usage; English term and English usage. Someone who knows three out of the four may still get it wrong.
     

    cypi

    New Member
    Hungarian
    The term is actually English - Germans tend to use plenty of English words. And I looked it up in a German dictionary, it states that the word is mostly used in a musical context. That is why I was curious to know if it would be correct to use this ENGLISH term here as well.
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    Would 'outside Shuhbeck, inside al dente' mean anything to a native speaker of English? No.
    This is a little harsh and, as it certainly meant something to me, probably inaccurate. What would you not understand about "al dente"? And if the article had mentioned "Shuhbeck" as a chef - the meaning is clear.
    But if 'crossover' is the German term, someone who does not know what it refers to cannot say whether the same term will convey the same meaning in English.
    I am surprised that this figurative use of "crossover", a neologism - about 20 years old in reference to cars, has not crossed over your path.

    So, if you want a practical and easy-going compact SUV with high kit levels, it’s worth casting more than a casual eye over the Vauxhall crossover.
    Vauxhall Mokka Tech Line 1.4 Turbo 6-speed manual Start/Stop FWD first drive review
    The Simpsons Guy" is a 45-minute-long crossover with The Simpsons, and ... The idea for a crossover episode was suggested by Family Guy executive producer
    The Simpsons Guy - Wikipedia
    Or, for a large list: Crossover - Wikipedia
     
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    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    I am surprised that this figurative use of "crossover", a neologism - about 20 years old in reference to cars, has not crossed over your path.
    My German vocabulary is not too meagre, but up to now it had not included 'crossover'.
    The term is actually English - Germans tend to use plenty of English words.
    But they very often use them with a different meaning or usage (e.g. 'handy' and 'public viewing'). Hence, in order to answer, you need to know all four elements: not just English term 'crossover' and its usage, but also German term 'crossover' and its usage.

    There is a temptation to think that if the same term is used, it will have the same meaning in both languages. This expectation is often falsified (the phenomenon is known as 'false friends').
     
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    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    It's still not clear to me. I think the average English person coming across it would find it puzzling.
     

    cypi

    New Member
    Hungarian
    Even if we want to follow this four-element-modell of yours: I already knew what crossover means in German, I quoted an example of how they use it and I also explained what they meant with it and that they usually do not use it in such a context. I also knew what crossover generally means in English because I looked it up in 4-5 different dictionaries (none of them mentioned a meaning related to cooking). Then I thought that I would ask some native speakers whether it would be understandable for them when watching a cooking show? So I actually fulfilled the criteria of your four elements: I know the German meaning and usage and I also know the English meaning and its usage. But all of this does not mean that the word crossover cannot be understood in the mentioned context. So I thought I would ask others before I use whole different words in the sentence (in the translated version).
     

    cypi

    New Member
    Hungarian
    Anyways, thanks to all of you for answering - I think I will use the word fusion kitchen because it is more understandable than crossover.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    This is a little harsh and, as it certainly meant something to me, probably inaccurate. What would you not understand about "al dente"? And if the article had mentioned "Shuhbeck" as a chef - the meaning is clear.
    Of course I know what 'al dente' means: I speak fluent Italian. My point was (and is) that 'outside Shuhbeck and inside al dente' means nothing to me. The only thing that can be 'al dente' is pasta and it certainly isn't 'al dente' on the inside: it is al dente (slightly undercooked) full stop. And as for 'outside Shuhbeck'.....apart from Shuhbeck??
     

    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    So I actually fulfilled the criteria of your four elements
    But, with respect, you did not fully know the English usage: otherwise you would not have needed to open the thread. I on the other hand, though I speak German, did not know the German side of the question and therefore knew I was not able to answer, and could only recommend better qualified people.

    Even when you know the meaning of a term in the original language, it is only with a good knowledge of the target language that you can arrive at a safe translation. There may be no straightforward equivalent, in which case you are forced to go back to the basic meaning of the original and seek a different idiom altogether. It is like the negotiating principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed: in translation, nothing is finalised until all four elements are fully met.
     
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    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    I've always heard the term fusion cuisine. But I think that mostly applied to a fusion of Eastern and Western cuisine.
     

    kentix

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    What he's really saying is the dish is half Bavarian (represented by Schuhbeck) and half Italian (represented by al dente). Or maybe it's half Italian and half Bavarian... That's the essence of the joke.

    But "inside" and "outside" doesn't work particularly well in getting that meaning across. And mixing his name with al dente doesn't either. That's comparing apples and oranges. A more direct comparison, with a German cooking term, would make more intuitive sense.
     
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