BCS Dialects: Pronunciation: sän and dän?

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by bragpipes, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. bragpipes Senior Member

    English - USA
    The Wikipedia article on Shtokavian describes the accent of Zeta-South Raška.

    Some vernaculars have a special reflex of ь/ъ in some cases (between a and e) - sän and dän instead of san and dan

    What the umlauted a refers to is a complete mystery to me. It is not used in BCS. I can't imagine this referring to Slovak ä which is rare enough as it is. I don't imagine it being German ä (ɛ).

    I thought maybe it's IPA ä (Open central unrounded vowel), but I don't get how that would be something "between a and e."

    The phrase "between a and e" makes no sense to me at all - not only do we not know what language they're in (BCS? English?) but we don't know what values they have to begin with (a in English as in dark? cat? e as in net?) before we even start searching for what's in the middle of these two.

    The Serbo-Croatian, Croatian, Serbian and Slovene articles don't mention this line at all. It is not sourced nor referenced with a footnote/link/anything.

    Anyone know what sound the author of the article is trying to explain?
  2. Karton Realista

    Karton Realista Senior Member

    Polish - Poland
    Pretty sure it's æ, that's what that sign means generally in Slavic languages.
    English "cat".
    In Slovak it also meant the above, but it changed it's sound into regular e.
  3. bragpipes Senior Member

    English - USA
    I had a feeling it was that, but I wasn't so sure. The article is written by different people, some using IPA, others saying "between a and e."

    Is that sound in Slovak a result of Hungarian influence?
  4. Panceltic Senior Member

    Could it be the "schwa" vowel (which we have in Slovenian for 'sen', a cognate of BCS 'san'), for whose transcription almost every letter has been used so far? :)
  5. Karton Realista

    Karton Realista Senior Member

    Polish - Poland
    Article about that:
    Kedy vzniklo slovenské ô a ä? Dávno, pradávno… | Sclabonia
    Author advocates, that ä and ô appeared in the very beginnings of Slovak language. The article is in Slovak, but it's written so simply that most people will not have trouble understanding it.
    I think it's a discussion for another thread.
  6. krpelj New Member

    It's more likely to be schwa. IPA æ is not found in Shtokavian and is more associated with other dialects.
  7. Karton Realista

    Karton Realista Senior Member

    Polish - Poland
    The Slavonic Languages
    Link linking to an article saying that something is pronounced as schwa or ä.
    Probably it was IPA's ä.
    Aj łoz łrong, sory, maj bad.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2015
  8. ilocas2 Banned

    If I were in your shoes, I would ask on the talk page of that article.
  9. Maison Rouge New Member

    English - US
    Although while the article does say the ɛ or æ, I would equate the sound to be closer to æ, like cat.

    Moreover, this sound is most commonly heard in Montenegrin speeches, especially in places like Plav and Gusinje.

    There are sources on the subject, and I have read that certain areas around Cetinje have the same sound.

    The word dan would be pronounced as [da:n] in standard Serbo-Croatian, and as [dæ:n] in Gusinje.

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