before + <do VS have done>

Discussion in 'English Only' started by grammar-in-use, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Hello everyone,

    Could you please help me with these two questions from a test paper:

    1. As is expected, it will still be some years before the metro line in our city _____ into practice.

    A.is put B.has been put

    Question 1: I know "A" should be correct. Then what about "B"?

    2. As is expected, it will still be some years before all the metro lines in our city _____ into practice.

    A.are put B.have been put

    Question 2: Are both "A" and "B" correct? If so, which one sounds better?

    (As a side note, I'd say "...put to use" or "...put into operation", instead of "...put into practice". Am I right?)

    Thanks a lot in advance!
     
  2. The Newt

    The Newt Senior Member

    USA / EEUU
    English - US
    A and B are fine in both those examples, and "put into operation" would be better than "put into practice." "As is expected" is also probably not something we would say in this context.
     
  3. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    Neither is correct as "into practice" is wrong.

    The question of the metro line and all the metro lines depends on what you mean by metro and line, and whether "Metro" is a proper name or a generic noun, and whether there is more than one physical line on the "Metro line"

    In order for your question to be properly answered, you need to give quite a lot of context. :thumbsup:
     
  4. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you very much for confirming. I just wondered if you could elaborate a bit on why “as is expected” doesn’t work fine in this context. Or, could you please give me an example sentence with it?
     
  5. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese

    Thank you very much, Paul. Let’s say a city’s underground railway system (i.e. called the Underground in BrE and the subway in AmE) consists of many different physical lines (say, Line 1, Line 2, Line 3, etc). By “line”, I mean a subway line or an underground railroad that connects the two different locations of a city. Is that clear enough?:)

    OK, then we’re talking about the construction of a specific subway line or many subway lines in our city. In the context of this kind, we say:

    1. It will still be some years before the metro line in our city ____ (is put/has been put) into operation.

    In this case, let's suppose a new subway line is being constructed and will be added to our city's existing underground railway system.

    2. It will still be some years before all the metro lines in our city ____ (are put/have been put) into operation.

    In this case, let's suppose that our city has never had the subway system before and that many lines are being constructed now.

    So, how would you fill in the blanks of sentences 1 and 2?
     
  6. The Newt

    The Newt Senior Member

    USA / EEUU
    English - US
    "As is expected" implies that it was already known that the service wouldn't be available for some years. If that's what the intention is, "as was expected" or "as has been expected" (or even just "as expected") would probably be better. But it's not clear whether the real intention may be "it is expected that..."

    "As is expected" would be fairly unusual.
     
  7. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    First, I would see "Metro" as being capitalised. The Metro is the entire system.

    In this case I would see "line" as meaning "one subsystem of the complete system. In the UK "lines" have names: The Piccadilly line, the Victoria line, the District line, etc., etc. Taken together, these create "The Underground" (an equivalent of the Metro.)

    "The Metro line", in UK terms, might be, for example, "The Victoria line", and "The Victoria line" would mean all the track and stations, etc., that comprise "The Victoria line of the London Underground system".
    BUT
    We cannot say "the Underground line" -> this must be adjectivally qualified: The Victoria [Underground] line :thumbsup:
    BUT
    We do say "The Underground system" or just "The Underground" or "the Tube"

    Here, in UK terms, "all the Metro lines" is ambiguous. It could mean
    (i) all the track of the entire system.
    (ii) all the subsystem lines.
    (ii) all the subsystems.

    1. As is expected, it will still be some years before the metro line in our city _____:thumbsdown:

    1. As was expected, it will still be some years before our city's the Underground/Metro system is in operation / fully operational / is [completely] up and running.
     
  8. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you very much for your detailed explanations!

    OK, let me change the subject to the specific lines with their names, for example:

    As was expected, it will still be some years before the Theresa line, the May line and the Elisabeth line ____ (are put/have been put) into operation. (Suppose the three lines are still under construction.)

    By the way, can we say "our city's the Underground ...", or just delete "the"?
     
  9. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thank you very much! I completely understand it now.:thumbsup: So, "as is expected" is not semantically equal to "It is expected that...", is it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 4:26 PM
  10. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    No, it is not.

    "It is expected that..." this is the passive impersonal. It means "Someone or some organisation/department (it really is very vague) expects that...".
     
  11. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Thanks a lot indeed. Sorry to repeat the question, but can we say "our city's the Underground ...", or just delete "the"?

    How would you complete the sentence:
     
  12. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    UK
    English - England
    :eek::eek:!
    We certainly cannot say "our city's the Underground system..." both "our" and "the" are determiners and a determiner cannot qualify another determiner!
     
  13. grammar-in-use

    grammar-in-use Senior Member

    Chinese
    Good to know. That's also what I thought.:)
     

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