Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Can you use the same verb in your language to express the following three?

    1. OK, I believe you.
    2a. I believe in God (or supernatural powers, or...).
    2b. Catholic/... faith
    3. I believe that you are right.

    Etymology: I... believe it refers to linking up, attaching/ getting attached - and is linked with to love, but I find no confirmation.

    geloven [in] (het geloof) in 1, 2a, 2b, 3.

    glauben [+ dative case (1)/ an] (der Glaube)

    croire (any noun ?), but foi in 2b
  2. Black4blue

    Black4blue Senior Member

    Sana inanıyorum. (I believe to you)
    Tanrıya inanıyorum. (I believe to God)
    Haklı olduğuna inanıyorum. (I believe to (that) you're right)

    It doesn't mean anything about love in Turkish.
  3. sakvaka

    sakvaka Senior Member

    Selvä, uskon sinua.
    Uskon Jumalaan (yliluonnollisiin voimiin...)
    Tunnustan katolilaista uskoa.
    Uskon, että olet oikeassa.

    The verb is the same, uskoa, but there's a slight variation of cases. 1 takes a direct, partial object whereas 2a takes the illative case ("to").

    Note that "usko" 'faith' is actually a derivation of the abovementioned verb. That's why we use the verb "tunnustaa" (lit. confess) when talking about Lutheran/Catholic/Hindi/Islamic faiths.
  4. bibax Senior Member

    Czech (Prague)

    1. Věřím ti. (věřiti + dative like Lat. credo/confido tibi)
    2a. Věřím v Boha. (věřiti + v + acc. like Lat. Credo in unum Deum)
    2b. Víra (Latin fides).
    3. Věřím, že máš pravdu.

    The verb věřiti is regularly derived from the noun víra.

    The noun víra, in Old Czech, Old Slavonic věra, is related to Latin vera (res vera = true thing; fem. of verus) and German wahr with same meaning. So věra originally meant truth, true thing.

    Věra is also a common Christian name.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  5. hui Senior Member

    (Off-topic correction)
    Not katolilaista but katolista. Katolilainen is a member of the katolinen church.
  6. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I guess 'Catholic/Muslim faith' is based on the same verb then. Or ... ?

    Thanks, everyone !
  7. Orlin Banned

    Bulgarian, Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian and Russian do the same: they use the verbs вярвам, v(j)erovati and верить rsp., all derived from the noun "faith" вяра, v(j)era and вера rsp (this noun is also a common personal proper name).
  8. Tjahzi

    Tjahzi Senior Member

    Umeå, Sweden
    Swedish (Göteborg)
    Swedish uses the same verb in all sentences - tro, although with a preposition function as a verbal adverb similarly to English in the case of 2a+b.
  9. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    In Greek:
    1. Verb «πιστεύω» (pis'tevo) deriving form the Classical «πιστεύω» (pĭ'steuō)-->to trust, rely on metaph. to put faith in. From the feminine noun «πίθτις» ('pitʰtis) eventually «πίστις» ('pistis, 'pisti in Modern Greek-->trust metaph. faith) ultimately from «πείθω» ('pĕitʰō, 'piθo in Modern Greek)-->to persuade, PIE base *bʰeidʰ-, to persuade, trust.
    2b. Idem.
    3. Idem.

    [θ] is a voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative
  10. Black4blue

    Black4blue Senior Member

  11. English Speaker Member

    Mexican Spanish

    1. Está bien, te creo. Está bien, creo en ti.
    2a. Creo en Dios. (o en poderes sobrenaturales, o...).
    2b. Creo en la religión católica.
    3. Creo que tienes razón. Pienso que tienes razón.
  12. Ghabi

    Ghabi AL/OL/Ar/Zh mod

    Hong Kong
    In Arabic three different verbs are used:

    1) Saddaqa ("deem true")
    2) 2aamana bi-
    3) Zanna or i3taqada ("think")
  13. Saluton Banned

    Moscow, Russia
    1. верить (verit')
    2а. верить (verit')
    2b. вера (vera)
    3. думать (dumat', think), считать (schitat', count), полагать (polagat', assume)
  14. Encolpius

    Encolpius Senior Member

    Praha (Prague)
    magyar (Hungarian)
    Yes, we can! :D


    1. hiszek
    2a. hiszek
    2b. hit
    3. hiszem
  15. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Do you have the same word for 'faith' then (religious faith)?

    I suppose that is linked with trust in English (and so with faith)...
  16. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But how about the word for faith ? No parallel then?
  17. tFighterPilot Senior Member

    Israel - Hebrew
    1) אני מאמין לך /aní ma'amín lekhá/
    2) אני מאמין באלהים /aní ma'amín be'elohím/
    3) אני סבור שאתה צודק /aní savúr she'atá tsodék/
  18. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Could you tell me what the verbs are ? Are they in any way semantically related?
  19. tFighterPilot Senior Member

    Israel - Hebrew
    The verb מאמין (present masculine singular) is the general verb for believe. Further more, the words faith and belief are translated to אמונה /emuná/. As for the verb סבור is somewhat weaker and could be translated to "assume".
  20. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Now I realize that /emunà/ turned up in two of the three. But none like that in 3 then? Assuming is also something like trusting, believing, etc., isn't it?
  21. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    In my Tagalog; 1.) Ayos naman at paniwala ako sa iyo. 2a.) Panalig ako sa Maykapal (Diyos) 2b.) Paniniwalang Katoliko 3.) Just say; "tama ka" or "matuwid na pagkakasabi mo".(you say it correctly)
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  22. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Do I see 'pani- all the time ? And could 'matuwid' be Arabic of origin?
  23. arielipi Senior Member

    סבור\חושב can sometimes replace מאמין
    savur\tohe meaning think.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  24. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    this 'pani' i think is derived from older form of Tagalog called Dumaget and it means "to become"/magiging in Tagalog.I guess the second part of word "Wa" is the sound of name of God followed by "la" with possible meaning "know" (Alam) so this word paniwala may mean " To become aware that there is God". The word "matuwid" i think is Aramaic origin. I know that there is letter T in Aramaic read as Tav(taw?) and i am not sure what is its exact meaning but in Tagalog it is righteousness/straight to the point/truthfulness. The word "panalig" is an old Tagalog word , only the last part is clear to me because most of the words with "ig' has the meanings (based on/ founded on/established).
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  25. rayloom

    rayloom Senior Member

    Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
    Arabic (Hijazi Arabic)
    The word for faith is Iman, which is actually the verbal noun of 2aamana (already mentioned by Ghabi).
  26. AutumnOwl Senior Member

    There is no difference in Swedish between to believe - att tro, and faith - tro
    Hur kan du tro det är sant? - How can you believe that's true?
    Min tro gör mig stark - My faith makes me strong
    English have the word troth, meaning truth, fidelity, loyalty, both Swedish tro and English troth going back to the Old English trēowth
  27. arielipi Senior Member

    Same goes with hebrew in basic words, emuna - faith, or being religious; ma'amin is believing.
    Both come from the root אמן a-m-n.

    As i said earlier and was somewhat out of place:
    סבור\חושב can sometimes replace מאמין
    savur\khoshev meaning think.
  28. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I was about to start a new 'believe' thread, while wondering about the link between believing (and thinking) and truth, but then I found this one back. I see that in most cases the verb 'believe' can be used to refer to both trusting (I believe in God, I believe him) as thinking (I believe that ...).

    Greek: pist-
    In most Germanic languages : often with gl-b/v or bel-v (West), tro- (North Germanic).
    In Slavic : basically v-r (true-, but I believe Russian makes a distinction between 'believe in' and 'believe that').
    IN Arabic, Hebrew, ... languages: a lot have -m-n but I believe Arab makes a distinction between 'B in' and '"B that' (even between all three)*, and Hebrew does too ...

    * I'd love to read a little more about the "tsaddak" root/word. It refers to truth inArabic, I gather, not to trust, or not directly. is that correct? And it has a special meaning in Hebrew, I believe: the righteous one, etc.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
  29. 123xyz

    123xyz Senior Member

    Skopje, Macedonia

    We'd use "верува" in all three, coming from the noun "вера", meaning "faith, belief".
  30. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But doesn't "вера" also mean 'truth' (Lat. veritas, as some people already pointed out)? Or is 'pravda' the new word for 'truth' in all those languages, incl. Macedonian?
  31. 123xyz

    123xyz Senior Member

    Skopje, Macedonia
    In Macedonian, it most certainly doesn't, and I don't know if it did. The word for truth is "вистина". Justice is "правда", although in Russian it means "truth", as far as I gather. Furthermore, the adjective form "верен" cannot mean "true" or "correct", although it's Bulgarian cognate does, I believe; it simply means "loyal, faithful". Anyway, in case you're curious, I'll give you some information about related words:

    верник - believer (in God)
    верба - faith (e.g. I have faith in you; I have faith in God; "вера" simply means "faith" in the sence "religion")
    доверба - confidence, trust
    доверлив - reliable, trustworthy
    веродостоен - trustworthy
    уверува - convince, persuade, assure (cause to believe)
    поверува - believe, fall for, buy
    проверува - check, verify
    завера - conspiracy
  32. SuperXW

    SuperXW Senior Member

    In Simplified Chinese:
    1. I believe you. 相信(believe) / 信任(trust)
    2a. I believe in God. 相信(believe) / 信仰(faith-level believe)
    2b. Catholic/... faith 信仰(faith: noun)
    3. I believe that you are right. 相信(believe)
    信 is the basic character for all the related meanings, so you can find it in all the words above.
  33. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Is there some way of describing/ explaining the basic character, SuperXW? (I know that my questions may be too Western, starting from roots, not from ideograms; just trying...)

    Would you be able to somehow explain the difference between 'believe' and 'faith-level believe'? I see they have the same root, but does the choice for one of them have an impact on the statement 'I believe in God' (if this is correctly worded)?
  34. arielipi Senior Member

    In hebrew
    צ-ד-ק ts-d-q root is used for right(correct)/righteousness/righteous/charity/justice words.
  35. Holger2014 Senior Member

    I don't know if it is the same in other Slavic languages but in Russian, at least, верa/vera can be translated as 'trust', 'faith', 'belief', related to верить/verit', 'to trust', 'to believe' and верный/verny, 'true'; 'faithful', while правда/pravda is normally translated as 'truth'. There are many derivations of both word stems --> 123xyz's post on Macedonian
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  36. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That is great information. Thanks !
  37. SuperXW

    SuperXW Senior Member

    Sorry, it's not easy for me to explain clearly the concept of Chinese characters, you can check wikipedia's page for that.
    It's kind of like roots of words. Each character has one or several "essential meanings". Sometimes, a single character is enough to function as a word, sometimes it's not, because the meaning is often too abstract or ambiguous. So, we often have two to four characters combined to form a particular word, the meaning would be more concrete and clear.
    信 the character itself means "believe", but it is extremely general. It can mean any kind of believing/belief. You can use it alone in all listed cases.
    信仰 is a religious word. It can be either a verb ("faith-level believe") or a noun (just "faith").
    相信 can only be the verb of "believe" (in general). It's not as serious as 信仰.
    You 信仰 God, you can also say you 相信 him.
    But when you 相信 some regular guy, or some common statements, or some fact, you cannot use the word 信仰.
  38. bibax Senior Member

    Czech (Prague)
    I mentioned it as a hypothetical original meaning, věra is probably a substantivized adjective (fem. form) = res vera, true thing.

    The adjective věrný/верный still means true (accurate) beside faithful (loyal), like in German (ge)treue: 1) věrná kopie, getreue Kopie 2) věrný klient, treue Klient.

    ověřiti/заверить, prověřiti/проверить = to verify, to certify, to authenticate;

    pravda (truth) is derived from the adjective pravъ (pravý, правый), original meaning straight/direct (directus), later right (dexter, Fr. droit < directus);
  39. Angel.Aura

    Angel.Aura del Mod, solo L'aura

    Roma, Italia
    Hi ThomasK,
    In Italian you can: the verb is credere (to believe) and the noun is credo (belief, mainly religious).
  40. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    What would you replace the second credo by, Angel.Aura? 'Penso' or something of the kind?
  41. luitzen Senior Member

    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon

    1. Ik leauw dy.
    2a. Ik leauw yn God.
    2b. Ik bin katolyk.
    3. Ik leauw datst lyk hast.
  42. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I suppose 'leauw' has the same origin as 'loven', '-lieve' (in believe), doesn't it? - But 'Catholic faith' means 'katholiek geloof' in Dutch:'katolyk leauw'?
  43. luitzen Senior Member

    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
    I'm quite sure the origin is the same.

    Frisian doesn't have a ge- prefix and usually uses the goal oriented form of the infinitive to make a noun (leauwen), but I've also heard the form leauwe.

    --> it katolyke leauwe(n)

    - Name form: leauwe
    - Goal form: (it) leauwen
    Present: ik leauw, do leauwst(o/-), hy/sy/it leauwt (er), wy/jimme/hja leauwe
    Preterite: ik leauwde, do leauwdest(o/-), hy/sy/it leauwde (er), wy/jimme/hja leauwden
    Perfect: ik haw leauwd

    o/- are the clitical forms of do
    er is the clitical form of hy
  44. luitzen Senior Member

    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
  45. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Two and a half years later I wonder about the precise meaning of "to believe" in all these cases. Do they have the same meaning?

    In some cases it looks like trust, in other cases something like a truth that is being assumed only, in other cases the Latin 'credo'. Do you see a variation too?
  46. Awwal12

    Awwal12 Senior Member

    Moscow, the RF
    Surely they don't. :) But at least Russian basically utilizes the same root for all these concepts - and English "believe" can be generally translated as "верить"(imp.)/"поверить"(perf.) in all cases as well, mind you.
  47. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    To me French foi and English faith sound so very different from our geloof (belief). The former seem to refer to a relationship, ours to an intellectual, rational idea... Yet, those are the official translations...
  48. Awwal12

    Awwal12 Senior Member

    Moscow, the RF
    Well, I was speaking about the verb in the first place. Yet the noun вера in Russian more or less covers all the respective meanings as well.
  49. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Quite OK, but the funny thing is that the French use the verb 'croire', b ut then switch to '"foi". "Croyance" would make religion suspicious in suggesting that it is based on "beliefs" that may be unfounded.
  50. Dymn Senior Member

    Catalan, Catalonia

    1. creure
    2a. creure
    3. creure, pensar


    1. Strong belief in something, especially religious: tenir fe en Déu, tinc fe en les capacitats dels meus fills, la fe és cega "to have faith in God, I have faith in my children's skills, faith is blind"
    2. System of religious beliefs: fe cristiana, fe musulmana "Christian faith, Muslim faith"

    1. Act of believing: abans la gent tenia la creença que les rates naixien de la brutícia "long ago people believed that rats were born from the dirt"
    2. Religion, especially when considered with others: Catalunya alberga multitud de creences d'arreu del món "Catalonia harbours myriads of beliefs from the world over"

    1. (rare) System of beliefs and tenets: el credo d'un partit polític, d'una filosofia "the tenets of a political party, of a philosophy"

Share This Page