Bengali: Which of these two English translations is closer to the original poem?

[islandinthesun]

There is a Bengali children's poem by Sukumar Ray called "রামগরুড়ের ছানা", which you can read and listen to here: https:// www . youtube . com / watch?v=6wDBWQ3hYzg (remove the spaces).

The poem has been rendered in English by two different writers under the titles "The Sons of Ramgaroo" (by Satyajit Ray) and "The Griffon's Grouse" (by Sukanta Chaudhuri). The two versions differ greatly from each other, leading to divergent readings; for one example, what Ray translates as "taboo" in the first stanza, Chaudhuri calls "sin". The former suggests a social injunction, while the latter is obviously a religious term and usually denotes something more egregious than a taboo.

Which translation would you say is more faithful to the original?

 

[Dib]

There is a Bengali children's poem by Sukumar Ray called "রামগরুড়ের ছানা", which you can read and listen to here: https:// www . youtube . com / watch?v=6wDBWQ3hYzg (remove the spaces).

The poem has been rendered in English by two different writers under the titles "The Sons of Ramgaroo" (by Satyajit Ray) and "The Griffon's Grouse" (by Sukanta Chaudhuri). The two versions differ greatly from each other, leading to divergent readings; for one example, what Ray translates as "taboo" in the first stanza, Chaudhuri calls "sin". The former suggests a social injunction, while the latter is obviously a religious term and usually denotes something more egregious than a taboo.

Which translation would you say is more faithful to the original?

Neither is really a translation. They are both poetic re-rendering. So, I would abstain from comparing them for their faithfulness to the original in terms of word-usage, like whether taboo or sin is the correct translation of what is simply "mana" (মানা) in the original. It literally means "forbidden", but not as strongly or institutionally as নিষেধ। It's more like বারণ। So, more like when parents ask a child to not do something. Taboo and sin are both much stronger in my opinion - though sin with its religious undertones may be more distant than taboo. The point is - it is a children's poem. So, Ray uses words that are more kids-friendly or what children (supposedly) use, like মানা (mana). It is hard to render that kind of usage details into a translation, let alone a poetic re-rendering.

 

[islandinthesun]

Neither is really a translation. They are both poetic re-rendering. So, I would abstain from comparing them for their faithfulness to the original in terms of word-usage, like whether taboo or sin is the correct translation of what is simply "mana" (মানা) in the original. It literally means "forbidden", but not as strongly or institutionally as নিষেধ। It's more like বারণ। So, more like when parents ask a child to not do something. Taboo and sin are both much stronger in my opinion - though sin with its religious undertones may be more distant than taboo. The point is - it is a children's poem. So, Ray uses words that are more kids-friendly or what children (supposedly) use, like মানা (mana). It is hard to render that kind of usage details into a translation, let alone a poetic re-rendering.

Thank you, Dib!

I have one more question: What is the original Bengali word in the last stanza which Satyajit Ray translates as “monastery” and Chaudhuri as “den”?

 

[Dib]

You are welcome.

If you look more carefully, the correspondence of Chaudhuri's "den" in Satyajit Ray's translation is "lair". In the Bengali original, it is বাসা, which is indeed the lair of an animal or the nest of a bird. This word has also acquired a secondary meaning - "a person's semi-permanent lodgings - usually at their town of work - away from their permanent home - usually in the countryside". This meaning has further extended in Bangladesh to simply mean "home", especially in a city, even if the person has no other home in the countryside.

The last three lines of the original poem are:
রামগরুড়ের বাসা ধমক দিয়ে ঠাসা,
হাসির হাওয়া বন্ধ সেথায়,
নিষেধ সেথায় হাসা।

Literally they mean:
The nest/den/lair/home of Ramgaroor is full of scolding/browbeating. The wind of laughter is stopped there. It is forbidden to laugh there. (And here, Ray uses the word নিষেধ - a more serious-sounding synonym for মানা "forbidding").

You can now compare this with the two English versions, and see where they diverge and where they converge to the original.

I have a theory where Satyajit Ray's "monastery" reference comes from. It is probably (unconsciously?) influenced by a celibrated play by Tagore - অচলায়তন, which describes the life in a conservative monastery where certain windows are forbidden to be opened, lest the wind of change should sneak in. To someone familiar with this work, Sukumar Ray's description of a place where the "wind of" something good (laugh in this case) is stopped, suggests obvious parallels.

---

Like so many good poems, it has different layers to its meaning. At the surface, it is obviously a children's poem. They enjoy its absurdity that there is someone who hates to laugh. But at a deeper level, it is also a satire at the pretensions of solemnity and hypocrisy practised in the society. The choice of words in the last three lines signals rather clearly, it is no laughing matter at all.

 

[islandinthesun]

You are welcome.

If you look more carefully, the correspondence of Chaudhuri's "den" in Satyajit Ray's translation is "lair". In the Bengali original, it is বাসা, which is indeed the lair of an animal or the nest of a bird. This word has also acquired a secondary meaning - "a person's semi-permanent lodgings - usually at their town of work - away from their permanent home - usually in the countryside". This meaning has further extended in Bangladesh to simply mean "home", especially in a city, even if the person has no other home in the countryside.

The last three lines of the original poem are:
রামগরুড়ের বাসা ধমক দিয়ে ঠাসা,
হাসির হাওয়া বন্ধ সেথায়,
নিষেধ সেথায় হাসা।

Literally they mean:
The nest/den/lair/home of Ramgaroor is full of scolding/browbeating. The wind of laughter is stopped there. It is forbidden to laugh there. (And here, Ray uses the word নিষেধ - a more serious-sounding synonym for মানা "forbidding").

You can now compare this with the two English versions, and see where they diverge and where they converge to the original.

I have a theory where Satyajit Ray's "monastery" reference comes from. It is probably (unconsciously?) influenced by a celibrated play by Tagore - অচলায়তন, which describes the life in a conservative monastery where certain windows are forbidden to be opened, lest the wind of change should sneak in. To someone familiar with this work, Sukumar Ray's description of a place where the "wind of" something good (laugh in this case) is stopped, suggests obvious parallels.

---

Like so many good poems, it has different layers to its meaning. At the surface, it is obviously a children's poem. They enjoy its absurdity that there is someone who hates to laugh. But at a deeper level, it is also a satire at the pretensions of solemnity and hypocrisy practised in the society. The choice of words in the last three lines signals rather clearly, it is no laughing matter at all.

Thank you once again, Dib! This was very helpful.