berretino

Zaccolini

Senior Member
USA English
Does anyone know the English equivalent of berretino? I thought it was some kind of grey but a French translation has it as a reddish color.

Azzurro is different from blu, but both are shades of blue. Which one is darker?

Much thanks.

Zaccolini

One only question for each thread, please.
 
  • Necsus

    Senior Member
    Italian (Italy)
    Frankly I don't know the meaning of 'berretino', and apart a reference to the "Zaccolini's (do you know him?;)) Theory of Color Perspective", I've found only these two references:

    CLIC - Berretino (panno): bigio, panno di colore bigio o cinereo, tendente al colore rosso scuro.
    CLIC - e trovorono ch’erano genti di color berretino tra il bianco e ‘l nero [...]

    but I don't know it they can help (it seems the former link doesn't work properly).
     

    Zaccolini

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Unfortunately, the color name berretino isn't used today... it referred to the color of a square cap that was popular, which some books say was scarlet, others grey; a color between black and white could be gray, except this isn't necessarily so when all colors were arranged between black and white in the 16th and 17th centuries.... Since the book refers to the skin color of American indians, it looks like it could be a reddish tone again, but obviously different enough from rosso to have another name.

    Thanks for your help.

    Zaccolini
     

    AliS201182

    New Member
    Italian
    Hello, I just wanted to help and thanks: very interesting the post with the 'history' of the word 'berretino': this word is, in fact, used now as 'berrettino' or 'berretto' with the meaning of little hat or simple hat.
    The 'azzurro' color is the tipical color of the sky when it's sunny and clean, or the Cyan on the computer's monitor; the 'blu' is darker and more similar to the night-time sky (blu notte) or the color of the sea far from the coast... or the blue of the RGB sistem. It's quite strange to me that in english they are called with the same word! ;)
     
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    Zaccolini

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Tante grazie!

    Color names and designations are always strange. I've heard the Eskimo's have more names for what we call 'white' than most of us can imagine!

    If 'azzurro' is the typical color of the sky on a clear day, closest to cyan, what about 'turchino', the term most 16th and 17th century writers use to describe sky-blue? Does it mean 'turquoise' in modern Italian, like the name of the semi-precious stone?

    Zaccolini
     

    Necsus

    Senior Member
    Italian (Italy)
    If 'azzurro' is the typical color of the sky on a clear day, closest to cyan, what about 'turchino', the term most 16th and 17th century writers use to describe sky-blue? Does it mean 'turquoise' in modern Italian, like the name of the semi-precious stone?
    Well, turchino exists in modern Italian too, but in my opinion it's not exactly the same as turchese, which is a more greenish colour:
    (HERE) turchino like the sky (azzurro cupo), turchese like the sea (tonalità di azzurro tra il verde chiaro e il celeste).
    From Gabrielli's dictionary:
    turchino - Di colore azzurro cupo: il ciel t. Pascoli;
    turchese - Che ha il colore turchino tendente al verde proprio della pietra omonima: un abito t.
     

    Zaccolini

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Okay, that suggests 'turchino' is a deeper blue than 'azzurro', almost like 'blu'.

    If this is correct, can 'turchino' and 'blu' be used interchangeably, or is 'blu' never acceptable to describe the color of the sky.

    Zaccolini
     

    Necsus

    Senior Member
    Italian (Italy)
    I'm afraid it will not be so easy...
    Again, on Wikibooks:
    AZZURRO: Il colore del cielo sereno (intermedio tra il celeste e il turchino)
    BLU: Il colore azzurro scuro: cielo, mare blu, avere sangue blu (fig.)

    And on Sinonimi Master:
    azzurro - Sinonimi: [...] blu, celeste, pervinca, turchese, turchino, cilestrino, ceruleo;
    blu - Sinonimi: azzurro, turchino;
    turchese - Sinonimi: azzurro;
    turchino - Sinonimi: azzurro, celeste.

    But... take a look at what I've found this time about berret(t)ino... HERE.
     

    Zaccolini

    Senior Member
    USA English
    WOW. Many thanks to both of you. I hadn't found the TLIO when I posted the initial inquiry. Use it all the time now. A great resource that allows me to stay at the computer so I don't have to tramp into the library to read the multi-volume Italian historical dictionary.

    Zaccolini
     

    Zenof

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Thanks Necsus, very kind of you.:)
    I corrected the link. You are right turchino is not present in that list, nevertheless I included it, just to help Zaccolini with the several shades of blue.
     
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