Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, die, meiner Meinung nach, X sicher ist.

WesołaBiedronka

Senior Member
Polish
I want to say "This is a description of a very interesting person which, in my opinion, <name> certainly is."

Is this correct? I know that the "die" necessary implies I'm describing a female. I know that I can reverse the word order and start by saying that a person is very interesting and that this is a description of her but I wonder if the sentence from the title is correct.
 
  • Frank78

    Senior Member
    German
    I want to say "This is a description of a very interesting person which, in my opinion, <name> certainly is."

    Is this correct? I know that the "die" necessary implies I'm describing a female.
    "Die" refers to "Person" and cannot give any clue about the person's sex.

    "Das ist eine Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, die, meiner Meinung nach, Schmidt* sicher ist.

    *if you want to make clear that "Schmidt" is female you can add a first name or the title "Frau".
     
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    jedna

    Senior Member
    Ich würde es doch etwas anders formulieren:
    Das ist eine Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, die (Name) meiner Meinung nach sicher ist.
    Könnte man anstatt 'sicher' auch 'sicherlich' sagen?

    I'd like to put it in another way:
    Das ist eine Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, die (Name) meiner Meinung nach sicher ist.
    Couldn't one -instead of 'sicher'- also say 'sicherlich'?
     
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    WesołaBiedronka

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Oh right, I thought that If I put "der" instead of "die" it would indicate that I'm talking about a man but now I can see there is actually no way to do that just as it isn't possible in Polish.
    About that "in meiner Meinung", is it technically incorrect or does it simply sound too unnatural in comparison to "meiner Meinung nach"?
     

    Frank78

    Senior Member
    German
    Oh right, I thought that If I put "der" instead of "die" it would indicate that I'm talking about a man but now I can see there is actually no way to do that just as it isn't possible in Polish.
    The relative pronoun has to take the grammatical gender of the noun.

    About that "in meiner Meinung", is it technically incorrect or does it simply sound too unnatural in comparison to "meiner Meinung nach"?
    That sounds very much like an Anglicism and a direct translation of "in my opinion".
     

    JClaudeK

    Senior Member
    Français France, Deutsch (SW-Dtl.)
    I want to say "This is a description of a very interesting person which, in my opinion, <name> certainly is."
    I don't understand what you mean by " ...... a person which <name> certainly is / die <Name> sicher ist".

    Do you mean "who is certainly <name> / die sicher < Name> ist" ?

    Edit: I though that you wanted to guess who is the person whose description has been given. Now (after #8) I understand what you mean.
     
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    WesołaBiedronka

    Senior Member
    Polish
    In english I can say something like "A rich person, which you certainly are, should help the poor" can't I? I have to admit I'm not entirely sure about this one.

    Now I want to use something similar by way of indroduction to a character description.
     

    WesołaBiedronka

    Senior Member
    Polish
    So, knowing what I meant in English, do you agree with my German translation? Or maybe it should be:

    "Das ist eine Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten person, wie, meiner Meinung nach, <name> sicher eine ist?"

    @Frank78 agreed with me in general but he didn't notice the mistake I committed although from what I understand it shouldn't matter here.
     

    JClaudeK

    Senior Member
    Français France, Deutsch (SW-Dtl.)
    do you agree with my German translation? Or maybe it should be:
    "Das ist eine Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, wie, meiner Meinung nach, <name> sicher eine ist?" :tick:
    I think that this version ('wie .... eine ist') is more idiomatic.
     

    jedna

    Senior Member
    There no doubt about the person's wealth. ('certainly' is omitted here)
    I don't exactly understand, JClaudeK, what you mean.
    Do you mean that I should have used the word 'certainly' (zweifellos, mit Sicherheit)? In that case:
    Without the word 'certainly' the sentence is not literally translated, that's true, but -as I see it- it is a fine idiomatic solution,
    and it's meaning is the same as a sentence with 'certainly'. But maybe I'm wrong, and 'zweifellos/mit Sicherheit' should be inserted too:
    Eine zweifellos reiche Person wie du sollte den Armen helfen.
    Wäre das besser:)?
     

    JClaudeK

    Senior Member
    Français France, Deutsch (SW-Dtl.)
    Do you mean that I should have used the word 'certainly' (zweifellos, mit Sicherheit)? [....] it's meaning is the same as a sentence with 'certainly'.
    Ich glaube, dass wir "certainly" auf verschiedene Weise interpretieren.

    a very interesting person which, in my opinion, <name> certainly is."
    Für mich bedeutet "certainly" hier nicht "zweifellos, mit Sicherheit" (in no doubt), sondern sicher iSv. "höchstwahrscheinlich, mit ziemlicher Sicherheit" (extremely likely), deshalb schrieb ich
    There no doubt about the person's wealth. ('certainly' is omitted here)
    Dein Satz "Eine so (oder: dermaßen) reiche Person wie du sollte den Armen helfen." ist/ wäre natürlich völlig OK. und idiomatisch, falls "certainly" = "zweifellos, mit Sicherheit" gemeint ist.

    Da müsste Wesola uns sagen, was sie mit "certainly" gemeint hat.
     

    Hutschi

    Senior Member
    (see JClaudeK, Today at 10:33 AMReport #17, Deutsch von mir
    [*]certainly adverb (IN NO DOUBT) - ohne jeden Zweifel
    [*]certainly adverb (EXTREMELY LIKELY) -(edit) zweifellos, mit Sicherheit äußerst wahrscheinlich
    Sicherlich/sicher is often likely -- not extremely likely. It may also mean agreement of the kind Ok, she is it but it does not mean much. It depends on context.

    This is the case in phrases like:

    Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person, die, meiner Meinung nach, Frau Schmidt sicher ist.
    This is fuzzy to me:
    = Description of a very interesting person, which (in my opinion) Mrs. X probably is.
    or
    = Description of a very interesting person, which (in my opinion) Mrs. X certainly is.

    Duden | sicher | Rechtschreibung, Bedeutung, Definition, Synonyme, Herkunft
    There are lots of synonymes (meanings):
    I omitted some words just to shorten the list, the complete list is in the link.

    The range is from Ohne jeden Zweifel to wahrscheinlich.

    To use it is a kind of rhetorical trick to hold it open.
    In the given phrase I feel "wahrscheinlich (but without much importance)"
    If you omit the whole part, it is much more without any doubt.
    (I think it is the same principle Claude omitted "certainly" in #10. If it is clear and you add "certainly" it becomes unclear, it has a kind of backdoor then.)
     
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    JClaudeK

    Senior Member
    Français France, Deutsch (SW-Dtl.)
    • certainly adverb (IN NO DOUBT) - ohne jeden Zweifel
    • certainly adverb (EXTREMELY LIKELY) - zweifellos, mit Sicherheit
    certainly adverb (EXTREMELY LIKELY) - zweifellos, mit Sicherheit :confused:
    Ich würde "ohne jeden Zweifel/ mit Sicherheit/ zweifellos" auf die gleiche Stufe (der Gewissheit) stellen - was ja auch der Duden tut.
     

    bearded

    Senior Member
    Eine nichtmuttersprachliche Meinung:
    für mich wäre die Formulierung

    ''Beschreibung einer sehr interessanten Person - was mMn X sicherlich ist''

    gar nicht falsch (Antwort auf die Frage Was ist X?: eine sehr interessante Person).
     
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    Hutschi

    Senior Member
    certainly adverb (EXTREMELY LIKELY) - zweifellos, mit Sicherheit :confused:
    Ich würde "ohne jeden Zweifel/ mit Sicherheit/ zweifellos" auf die gleiche Stufe (der Gewissheit) stellen - was ja auch der Duden tut.
    Stimmt. Ich habe es oben korrigiert, aber die falsche Version durchgestrichen stehen lassen, damit man folgen kann. Außerdem habe ich die Quelle präzisiert.
     
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