besides

navi

Banned
armenian
Which are correct:

1-As well as his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
2-Besides his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
3-Apart from his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.


I'd try to make parallel constructions and would say 'As well as/Besides/Apart from making nasty comments about his father....' In other words I'd add a verb to the first part, but I wanted to see if these worked.
 
  • vicky1027

    Senior Member
    usa english
    Which are correct:

    1-As well as Including his nasty comments about his father, he also said that his mother was alcoholic.
    2-Besides his nasty comments about his father, he also said that his mother was alcoholic.
    3-Apart from his nasty comments about his father, he also said that his mother was alcoholic.
    "As well as" doesn't sound right to me, but I'm not sure "Including" is that much better. However, in my opinion you need "also" in all examples!
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Which are correct:

    1-As well as his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
    2-Besides his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
    3-Apart from his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.


    I'd try to make parallel constructions and would say 'As well as/Besides/Apart from making nasty comments about his father....' In other words I'd add a verb to the first part, but I wanted to see if these worked.
    Yes, the constructions work fine. I'm not sure if I find 2 and 3 colloquial though, there's something I find just a little odd, although perhaps I'm inventing it. I think I would certainly say "His nasty comments about his father aside,...." instead of either so perhaps that's just it.

    Edit - I posted at the same time as Vicky. I don't have a problem with "as well as" (and I don't think you have to add the "also").
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Yes, the constructions work fine. I'm not sure if I find 2 and 3 colloquial though, there's something I find just a little odd, although perhaps I'm inventing it. I think I would certainly say "His nasty comments about his father aside,...." instead of either so perhaps that's just it.
    Tim,

    I read the original post and said nothing because I was simply not sure of how I felt about the given sentences.

    For instance:

    As well as his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.

    I won't say that the above sentence is wrong, but it just doesn't feel right to me. Am I overly analyzing here?

    Unless I'm completely missing the point (and I may be), I would write something like:

    Not only did he make nasty comments about his father, he [also] said that his mother was [an] alcoholic.

    I also believe that in AE, "was an alcholic" is much more common than "was alcoholic". Is it different in BE? I don't sense a difference in meaning.

    Gaer
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Tim,

    I read the original post and said nothing because I was simply not sure of how I felt about the given sentences.

    For instance:

    As well as his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.

    I won't say that the above sentence is wrong, but it just doesn't feel right to me. Am I overly analyzing here?
    Don't know - could be, as it's always a danger in answering threads like this and exactly my concern over my (slight) misgivings about 2 and 3. Rereading 1 again now, a bit later, still nothing strikes me as odd about it personally. Ultimately, I don't think that I would blink on reading or hearing such sentences "in real life" as opposed to under this microscope.
    Unless I'm completely missing the point (and I may be), I would write something like:

    Not only did he make nasty comments about his father, he [also] said that his mother was [an] alcoholic.

    I also believe that in AE, "was an alcholic" is much more common than "was alcoholic". Is it different in BE? I don't sense a difference in meaning.

    Gaer
    Yes - in BE "was an alcoholic" would be more normal too - or at least it would be more natural for me to say that.
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    Which are correct:

    1-As well as his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
    2-Besides his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.
    3-Apart from his nasty comments about his father, he said that his mother was alcoholic.


    I'd try to make parallel constructions and would say 'As well as/Besides/Apart from making nasty comments about his father....' In other words I'd add a verb to the first part, but I wanted to see if these worked.
    I think there's a structural problem in all of these. To make the construction work, the second half has to "fit" with the first half. So the essential structure has to be "As well as/besides/apart from his nasty comments..., he made [other/similar etc] comments about...". "He said", to me, doesn't work.

    I agree with others who've said there needs to be an "an" before "alcoholic".
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    I agree with Loob that the main problem is that the two parts don't match. We don't say "he said nasty comments", but I might say:

    "As well as/Besides/Apart from some/those nasty things (he said) about his father, he (also) said (that) his mother was an alcoholic."
    "As well as/Besides/Apart from making nasty comments about his father, he (also) said that his mother was an alcoholic."
    "As well as/Besides/Apart from his nasty comments about his father, he made several remarks to the effect that his mother was an alcoholic."
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Don't know - could be, as it's always a danger in answering threads like this and exactly my concern over my (slight) misgivings about 2 and 3. Rereading 1 again now, a bit later, still nothing strikes me as odd about it personally. Ultimately, I don't think that I would blink on reading or hearing such sentences "in real life" as opposed to under this microscope.
    I almost always agree with you, as you know. This time I don't. Those sentences continue to bother me. Loob gave me a clue as to why. Forero supplied some sentences that convince me that both Loob and I are right about the first half of the sentence not agreeing with the second half.

    This was my suggestion:
    Not only did he make nasty comments about his father, he [also] said that his mother was [an] alcoholic.
    Now this:

    "As well as/Besides/Apart from making nasty comments about his father, he (also) said that his mother was an alcoholic."
    This is only one of his solutions, but it sounds a thousand times better to me. :)

    Gaer
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    I almost always agree with you, as you know. This time I don't.
    Oh well, I'll let you off this time, but don't make a habit of it;).
    Those sentences continue to bother me. Loob gave me a clue as to why. Forero supplied some sentences that convince me that both Loob and I are right about the first half of the sentence not agreeing with the second half.
    I can see the logical argument, but still for number 1 - it wouldn't have struck me as odd. Well, if we all agreed all the time that would be very boring.:)
     
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