bewegen, lassen, bringen, machen (im Sinne von to make)

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by gvergara, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. gvergara

    gvergara Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Español
    Hallo:

    Ich schaffe es nicht, den Unterschied zwischen diesen vier Verben zu verstehen, wenn sie im Sinne vom englischen Verb to make verwenden werden.

    Ich habe sie zum Aufstehen bewegt. (made them wake up)
    Sein Schweigen hat mich glauben lassen, dass ich einen Fehler gemacht hatte. (made me think)
    Er hat mich immer wieder zum Lachen gebracht. (made me laugh)
    Das neugeborene Kind hat die ganze Familie wirklich glücklich gemacht. (made the whole family really happy)


    Ich vermute, machen ist das einzige von diesen Verben, das in Verbindung mit einem Adjektiv verwendet wird. Dagegen, alle anderen Möglichkeiten werden mit einem (zu-)Infinitiv verwendet (oder zum+substantivierter Infinitiv).

    Danke im Voraus,

    Gonzalo
     
  2. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    English "to make" is verb for very many situations and used in extremely many fixed phrases. Don't think of each of these cases as a possible translation of "make", but learn the English fixed phrases to be translated to different full verbs in German. You should more wonder about the broad applicability of English "make" rather than about the existence of a variety of proper verbs in German.

    Don't think of "bewegen" as possible translation of "machen" (that idea is wrong!) but "zum Aufstehen bewegen" as possible translation of "to make s.o. wake up". That's an important difference when learning vocabulary.

    In most cases, elevated German style tries to avoid using "machen". In this sense it is somewhat considered an "auxiliary verb" (joke), because it only is filled with meaning together with other words ("glauben machen", "glücklich machen"). There are a lot of "machen"-constructions in German, too, but they are much less used in written German than the English equivalents considered as good style.

    This is not very idiomatic anyway. "Bewegen" is not a typical translation of "machen", but only a possible translation for this very specific case.

    Let me think about it... "Lassen" and "let" are the typical translations of each other. Again, "lassen" is not a typical translation of "machen", but only a possible translation in this specific case.
     
  3. Frieder

    Frieder Senior Member

    „Sein Schweigen machte mich glauben, einen Fehler begangen zu haben.” (sehr gehoben).

    Um jemanden zu etwas zu bewegen, musst du ihn zuerst überreden, oder ihm gut zureden. Wenn du jemanden „zum Aufstehen bewegst”, dann hat er vermutlich zunächst keine Lust darauf und lässt sich dann aber durch deine Überredungskünste doch dazu bewegen.

    Machen und to make sind fast schon "false friends". Siehe dazu auch dieses interessante Tutorial.
     
  4. gvergara

    gvergara Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Español
    Danke. Und wie würdest du dies in einem umgangssprachlicheren Stil sagen?
     
  5. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Das gibt es sicherlich viele Möglichkeiten, je nach Situation.

    Ich glaubte, einen Fehler gemacht zu haben, weil er (plötzlich) schwieg. <normale Sprachebene>
    Er sagte nichts mehr, und ich dachte, ich hätte einen Fehler gemacht. <einfacher>


    Generell versucht man, wie bereits oben angedeutet, im Schriftlichen und in gehobener gesprochener Sprache, "machen" zu vermeiden. Umgangssprachlich ist es aber üblich.

    Schriftlich ist "einen Fehler begangen zu haben" also besser ausgedrückt als "einen Fehler gemacht zu haben", aber letzteres ist wesentlich üblicher.
     
  6. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Ja, dort wird der Unterschied zwischen machen und to make gut dargestellt, auch wenn ich BL ansonsten manchmal etwas übertrieben finde... Aber machen und to make sind quasi false friends, das sollte einem klar sein.
     
  7. gvergara

    gvergara Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Español
    Ich möchte mich bei euch allen danke, vor allem dem Frieder, wegen des Tutorials.
     
  8. elroy

    elroy Imperfect Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Also die beiden Verben als "false friends" zu bezeichnen...ich finde, das geht zu weit. Natürlich überlappen sie sich nicht hundertprozentig, aber doch relativ oft.

    I made a cake. = Ich habe einen Kuchen gemacht.
    My sister made me a hat. = Meine Schwester hat mir einen Hut gemacht.
    We need to make plans for our project. = Wir müssen Pläne machen für unser Projekt.
    How do you make a gentleman out of such a brute? = Wie macht man aus so einem Rohling einen Gentleman?
    You need to make the most of it. = Du musst das Beste daraus machen.
    Let's make a deal. = Machen wir einen Deal.
    Let me make one thing clear. = Lass mich eins klar machen.
    He made me unhappy. = Er hat mich unglücklich gemacht.
    He's making progress. = Er macht Fortschritte.
    He made use of his talents. = Ich hat von seinen Talenten Gebrauch gemacht.

    etc. etc. etc.
     
  9. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Elroy, I believe the lengthy explanations of BelleLettres to be quite interesting and fine. Have you read the reasoning? Do you contradict the arguments? Personally I sort of have to believe them, but it sounds quite convincing. This pictures of the blog summarises the issue:

    semantik-machen-make (1).png
    The summary concludes that German "machen" focuses on the process like "herstellen, tun, fertigen", while the English "to make" focuses on the outcome like "gelingen, erreichen, schaffen".

    The pictures shows that there is a small overlap, but there is more of a discrepance. Examples like "to make the team" (es ins Team schaffen; nicht: "wir machen mal ein Team" = ein Team bilden) or "to make land/port" (das Festland/den Hafen erreichen; nicht: das Land bearbeiten oder einen Hafen bauen) are quite convincing for me.
     
  10. elroy

    elroy Imperfect Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Yes, I did read all that and found it quite interesting. But there are far too many cases of overlap for me to find the term "false friend" appropriate. The "erreichen" meanings are just a subset of all the meanings of "make." That diagram is misleading, as it is not representative of the semantic scope of "make." I could have just as easily put all my examples where they've put all the "erreichen" examples. ;)
     
  11. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    @elroy: Yes, "false friend" might be too hard a term for this pair of words, but the very close analogy in spelling is surely misleading. The scope of "make" is much broader than that of "machen".

    The blog also ignores the contemporary usages of "machen" in the English style and I would be interested whether this is actually a new development or an historically established usage, e.g. "er macht viel Geld damit", "ein Date klar machen", "das macht nichts", "was macht das? (was kostet es?)" und so weiter.
     
  12. elroy

    elroy Imperfect Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I've never had an issue with this and I've always thought of them as cognates - which they are. It's not just "similar spelling."

    It's the same thing with "do" and "tun"; they overlap to a great extent, but not always.
     
  13. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Yes, they are cognates, i.e. related words. They have a considerable overlap, but there are also interesting differences in usage. I found the BelleLettres focus on "fertigen vs schaffen" stimulating and worthwhile to consider.
     
  14. elroy

    elroy Imperfect Mod

    Chicago, IL
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    :thumbsup: Me too.
     
  15. Oceanboy Senior Member

    Spanish/Ecuador
    Hello friends,

    It s a bit confusing but could anyone just say if it s possible to replace bewegen with machen in the first sentences?

    And how to say : her silence made me think that.....

    He always makes me laugh?

    I always thought that make somebody do something was translated by " swingen " but then you have things line

    Make somebody wate= jemanden warten lassen and then things like Make somebody talk=jemanden dazu bringen zu sprechen

    Any simple explanation please?

    Thanx a lot
     
  16. Oceanboy Senior Member

    Spanish/Ecuador
    Sorry for the grammar errors

    It s zwingen *

    And to wait in the second*
     
  17. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Ihr Schweigen hat mich denken/glauben lassen, dass...

    Er bringt mich immer zum Lachen.

    That is not even a German word. No, I cannot follow you idea at all.

    Right.
     
  18. Oceanboy Senior Member

    Spanish/Ecuador
    Thank you Kajjo

    This the word that I missed spelt before ZWINGEN

    Can you follow my idea now?

    Sorry for the mistake
     
  19. Kajjo

    Kajjo Senior Member

    Zwingen means to force or coerce someone to do something, usually by usuing force or threats. This is much too strong.
     

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