bid

bet2173

Senior Member
Turkish
Good afternoon all,

In the dialogue below (from Ivanhoe) which meaning of the verb is used?

"Priest or layman," answered Ulrica, "thou art the first I have seen for twenty years, by whom God was feared or man regarded; and dost thou bid me despair?"

"I bid thee repent," said Cedric. "Seek to prayer and penance, and mayest thou find acceptance! But I cannot, I will not, longer abide with thee."

Many thanks.
 
  • Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    "Do you ask me to give up all hope?" asked Ulrica.
    "I ask you to make a change for the better," said Cedric.
    Bid --request, "beseech, entreat" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary).
     

    bet2173

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    "Do you ask me to give up all hope?" asked Ulrica.
    "I ask you to make a change for the better," said Cedric.
    Bid --request, "beseech, entreat" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary).
    I don't think he's "asking" here. "To command" as sound ship suggested, suits much better to the context. He's in a priest's robe so this dialogue has a canonical tone.
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    He's in a priest's robe so this dialogue has a canonical tone.
    "I am a Saxon, but unworthy, surely, of the name of priest. Let me begone on my way...or send one of our fathers more worthy to hear your confession...Only God himself can cure the leprosy of the soul...I am no priest, I am no priest, though I wear a priest's garment." Cedric tried very hard to avoid the position of authority.
     

    Hau Ruck

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    I disagree. I don't believe that the word reference dictionary has the proper (listed as obsolete) definition in it.

    If you look at Merriam-Webster, you will find:

    Definition of BID

    transitive verb
    1
    a (obsolete) : beseech, entreat

    I believe that Ulrica is asking the priest if he wishes (beseeches) despair upon her.
    The priest then replies that he does not wish (beseech) despair upon her, but......

    It is listed as obsolete, but that would make sense. The book is old; so is the usage.
     

    bet2173

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    I disagree. I don't believe that the word reference dictionary has the proper (listed as obsolete) definition in it.


    I believe that Ulrica is asking the priest if he wishes (beseeches) despair upon her.
    The priest then replies that he does not wish (beseech) despair upon her, but......
    Yes, after thinking on the sentence for a while that is exactly what I understand from it. Thanks!
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    I believe that Ulrica is asking the priest if he wishes (beseeches) despair upon her.
    Is "despair" in the original text a noun or a verb? I strongly believe "bid me despair" and "bid thee repent" are parallel in structure. "Repent" is certainly a verb. It suggests that "despair" is likely used as a verb as well. Old expressions like "bid me discourse (= speak)", "bid me run", "bid me die", and "bid me leap" contain "bid someone" + bare infinitive.
     

    Hau Ruck

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Is "despair" in the original text a noun or a verb? I strongly believe "bid me despair" and "bid thee repent" are parallel in structure. "Repent" is certainly a verb. It suggests that "despair" is likely used as a verb as well. Old expressions like "bid me discourse (= speak)", "bid me run", "bid me die", and "bid me leap" contain "bid someone" + bare infinitive.
    I believe both despair and repent to be intransitive verbs.

    --->bid (wish) me despair (to lose all hope)
    --->bid (wish) you repent (to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life [most likely] or to feel regret or contrition or to change
    one's mind)
     
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