Birth act

Ruchy

New Member
French, France
Hello!
This is the birth act of one of my cousins, I would really love to find someone able to read it, or at least the main infos (dates, names...). Thank you very much!


http : // data dot jewishgen dot org / Viewmate / hold / 9055 dot jpg
 
  • Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    First of all Russian text. It's made in the old orthografy and in the best style of the office calligraphy, and is not readable too easy. Unclear letters marked red.
    Normal link: http://data.jewishgen.org/Viewmate/hold/9055.jpg
    Посад Граница, Н. Акла, 25, Израел Шмуль Шитер.
    Состоялось в посаде Гневошеве восьмого октября тысяча восемьсот восемьдесят первого года в девять часов утра, явился лично Зельман Шитер, торговец, двадцать один лет от роду имеющий в посаде Граница жительствующий в присутствии свидетелей Хайкина Сакшнайдера шпольника (?) тридцати четырех лет в посаде Граница и Лейзора Глясмана шпольника (?) сорок шести лет от роду имеющих в посаде Гневошев жительствующих, представил нам младенца мужского пола объявляя, что он родился в посаде Граница тридцатого сентября в семь часов вечера с незаконной его жены Руфли Руфтман девятнадцать лет от роду имеющей, младенцу тому при совершении религиозных обрядов дано имя Израел Шмуль Акл сей объявляющему и свидетелям прочитан нами подписан ибо объявляющий и свидетели заявили что грамоте не знают.
    Содержащий Акта Гражданского состояния
    Подпись
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    Vert rough translation below.
    Besides of possible grammatical errors, I could not reproduce archaic and bureaucratic style of the original.
    Hope English natives will do the rest.

    Town of Granitsa, N. Ukl 25. Israel Shmul Shiter (or Sheter)
    Made up in the town of Gniewoszow 08 October 1881 at nine a.m., Zelman Shiter, merchant, 21 years old, inhabitant of the town of Granitsa [literally – border] came in person, and in the presence of witnesses Sakschneider Khaykin, (шпольника?) 34 years old, inhabitant of the town of Gniewoszow and Leysor Glyasman (шпольника?) 46 years old inhabitant of the town of Granitsa, has presented us an infant of the male gender stating that he had been born in the town of Granitsa 30 September at seven p.m. from his illegitimate wife Ruflya Ruftman 19 years old; said infant by the religious ceremony had been given the name of Israel Shmul Ukl, we have read this act to the declarer and the witnesses, for the declarer and the witnesses have stated of their being illiterate.
    Supervisor of Acts of Civil Status
    Signature
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    Hello!
    This is the birth act of one of my cousins, I would really love to find someone able to read it, or at least the main infos (dates, names...). Thank you very much!


    http : // data dot jewishgen dot org / Viewmate / hold / 9055 dot jpg
    Deux petites corrections, Ruchy:

    En anglais "acte de naissance" c'est "birth certificate"

    Aussi "information (info)" est un non quantitatif et existe seulement au singulier. On ne peut pas dire "infos" ou "informations".

    Comme dit Carrie2, dis-nous si tu as besoin d'une traduction.

    Salutations amicales,

    Brian
     

    niko

    Senior Member
    French (France)
    May I correct you Brian ?! Ok, I dare ;p
    Souhaits amicaux
    By the way it is a pretty odd way to end a letter, even if the meaning is quite understandable, I think that "salutations amicales" would be more appropriate ;)
    (yes, I know, it is pretty off-topic, please Jana, not the axe! I just didn't dare use PM :( )
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    May I correct you Brian ?! Ok, I dare ;p

    By the way it is a pretty odd way to end a letter, even if the meaning is quite understandable, I think that "salutations amicales" would be more appropriate ;)
    (yes, I know, it is pretty off-topic, please Jana, not the axe! I just didn't dare use PM :( )
    Merci pour la correction, Niko. Moi aussi, j’espère que Jana ne nous donnera pas un coup de pied au derrière pour avoir parlé français et pour être allé "off-topic" a cet Forum!
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    Witnesses' occupation may be not шпольник (I've no idea what could it mean), but испольник - metayer - but letter "c" looks a bit differently from their sisters in the text, and usual form of this word - испольщик.
    Moreover, metayer is rather rare occupation for the Jews of Russian Empire.
    What are other ideas ref. to this word?

    Besides, I have problem with the word посад. Literally it means a suburb of a town, but in this case it would be reasonable to see in our text the name of this town, but we have nothing.
    Maybe посад here means borough?
    Any ideas?

    And the last: I'm sure there must be the name of the government (powiat) and district (gmina). Otherwise this document cannot certify birth in due way. Is there anything like that, Ruchy?
     

    AndrzejR

    Member
    polish/Poland
    I think, the word посад is the same like Polish word posada. It is old word, you can find it only in names of place. Present is osada - settlement, посёлок.

    And witnesses' occupation for me is школьник. Maybe 100 years ago it was someone who worked at school.
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I think, the word посад is the same like Polish word posada. It is old word, you can find it only in names of place. Present is osada - settlement, посёлок.

    And witnesses' occupation for me is школьник. Maybe 100 years ago it was someone who worked at school.
    Maybe, maybe... But two школьник at once?.. However, what school is meant? Heder? Never heard there was suc a post like school assistant. Usually communities could hardly afford supporting of melameds... By the way, I guess illiteracy is meant referring to Russian only.
    But anyway, it seems to me it's not школьник, because the second letter sigificantly differs from her sisters in the text. Is there anything like шпольник in Polish? Maybe шпульник (шпуля - sheave)?
     

    K.u.r.t

    Senior Member
    Czech
    I think that the школьник is very likely as the 1st and last k look almost identical. BTW: školník is a word still used in Czech for a school caretaker to this day.
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    I think that the школьник is very likely as the 1st and last k look almost identical. BTW: školník is a word still used in Czech for a school caretaker to this day.
    In case any of you don't know, "caretaker" in the sense of a person employed to sweep the floors, clean the bathrooms etc. of a school or other institution, is BE. In AE he/she is called a "custodian".
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I think that the школьник is very likely as the 1st and last k look almost identical.
    Can't agree, let's look again: in the doubtful letter there is evident opening between the vertical lines, unlike almost all the letters K in this text, in which the right line concaves in the left touching or even crossing the left line. Unfortrunately, we have only one letter П in the text appropriate for comparison, i.e. internal letter, - namely, in the word подписанъ - and it looks much more similarly to the second letters of ш?ольник, than to any of the letters K.
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    So most likely шпольник derivates from спольник<испольник/испольщик - metayer, sharecropper.
    But one unclear nuance still remains: is it possible in Polish such a transfer сп > шп?
    Can anybody find examples of the substituation of common-slavic "сп-" with "шп-" шт Polish?
     
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