Birth Certificate

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PocketWatch

Member
USA English
This might be an interesting document to look at. It's a birth record from 1848. The text however seems difficult to read. It is a birth record for Chaja-Golda Kupfersztajn. Her parents were Pessa and Szloma. Whenever someone has a chance, a translation would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

 
  • Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Działo się to w mieście Gubernialnym Lublinie dnia ____ /30* kwietnia 1848 roku o godzinie 4 popołudniu stawił się staro___? Szlema Kupfersztajn ojciec wyrobnik lat 50 liczący w Lublinie zamieszkały w obecności świadków Arona Pach? wyrobnika lat 59 i Abrama Baiman? wyrobnika lat 59 liczących obu tu w Lublinie zamieszkałych i okazał nam dziecię płci męskiej urodzone tu w Lublinie w domu numer ______? ________? Dzisiaj 9/21* kwietnia roku bieżącego o godzinie 5 popołudniu z małżonki jego Pessy Rajcy Kupferszmit lat 40 liczącej. Któremu &shy;&shy;&shy;&shy;______? zostały imiona Chaja Golda. Akt ten stawiającym odczytany i przez tych podpisanym został.
    Szlima Kupfersztajn ojciec
    Aron Pach? świadek
    Abram Badiman świadek

    *the dates look strange to me since there are two days

    It happened in the city of Gubernialny Lublin, on the ___/30th of April 1848 at 4 pm ____ Szlema Kupfersztajn a father labourer, 50 years old, resident in Lublin, appeared in the presence of witnesses Aron Pach? labourer, 59 years old and Abram Bediman? labourer, 59 years old, both residents here in Lublin and showed us a child of male sex born here in Lublin in the house number _____? _______? today on the 9/21 of April in the current year at 5 o’clock pm by his spouse Pessa Rajca Kupferszmit, 40 years old. Who was named Chaja Golda. This certificate was read to the appeared and was signed up by them.
    Szlima Kupfersztajn father
    Aron Pach? witness
    Abram Badiman witness


    The text is hard to read since the character of the letters is different from what it is now. I couldn’t make some words out they are left as ______ sometimes with a ?, in one case I encrypted just the beginning. Perhaps, someone else can help with the rest or ameliorate what I wrote.
    Also the signatures of the parties are not in Polish, I don’t know what language they are in (I presume it may be Yiddish). The last line of the text is illegible to me, I can’t make a word of it.


    Tom
     

    PocketWatch

    Member
    USA English
    The signatures in the end are in Yiddish. The last line of the text refers to a different document.
    and showed us a child of male sex born here
    This puzzled me. Are you sure it's not female?
    Thank you very much for the translation.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I can see where your confusion is coming from, but this is what I make out of the text, I have shown it to my sister and she also says it’s męskiej – male, but please wait for someone from the forum to confirm--it isn't well legible, perhaps we are wrong or there is a mistake in the text.

    A short digression:
    A few months ago I went to the theatre to watch The Magician of Lublin by Isaac Bashevis Singer. The time and plot are set in the 1800’s in Poland (so that’s about the same as in your birth certificate, though I don’t know if Singer adjusted his play to the realities of those times). The name of the main character is Jasza (Yasha in English), which sounds totally feminine to Polish ears, it is, however, a man. Perhaps, the names on the certifiacete are both male and female?


    Tom

    PS: out of curiosity, do you happen to know why there are two days in the dates given in the certificate? Could it be that there were two different callendars?
     

    PocketWatch

    Member
    USA English
    There are usually two dates on these certificate. The first date is when the event took place and the second is when it was recorded in the civil registers.
     

    arturolczykowski

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Definitely it is written 'Male'. The other lacking words I found are 'starozakonny' and 'nadane' (Ktoremu nadane zostaly...)

    Quite strange as Chaja and Golda are definitely female names....
     

    David

    Banned
    There are usually two dates on these certificate. The first date is when the event took place and the second is when it was recorded in the civil registers.
    Actually, on a Polish birth certificate from 1848, when Lublin was under the Russian empire, two dates 12 days apart, written 9/21 April 1848 would indicate the difference between the Russian official calendar, not converted from Julian to Gregorian until the Revolution of 1917, and the modern Gregorian already in use by the Roman Catholic Church in Poland.

    The Russian date of April 9, 1848 would have been the same day as the modern date of April 21, 1848. The Hebrew date would have been Nisn 18, 5608, and would have appeared in rabbinical records, but this is a civil birth certificate in the "metric book" or birth register.

    The proper way to write such dates would be April 21, 1848 n.s.; April 9, 1848 o.s., and Nisn 18, a.m. 5608 or Nisn 18, 5608 (1848 c.e.). In Hebrew, the date might also have been written 18 Nisn 608, the 5 being understood, the idea being that people usually know what millennium you are talking about.

    n.s. - new style
    o.s. - old style
    anno mundi, that is, from the "creation of the world"
    c.e. - common era (equiv. to a.d., anno Domini, but the latter is a Christian phrase, not a secular one. it would be incorrect to write a.D. 5608.)

    Also, it does not say that the child was named Chaia-Golda, but that (I can't tell which, but I am pretty sure) it was either the name of the, wife's mother (Pesach Raisa daughter of Golda Chaia) or perhaps of the midwife, who was frequently mentioned in those certificates. The male child might well not have received a given name until the b'rit mila ceremony or, if a first-born mail, the pidyin ha-ben. Infant mortality what it was, it was sometimes considered unlucky to name a child too soon.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Thanks David for this interesting comment.
    [...]

    Also, it does not say that the child was named Chaia-Golda, but that (I can't tell which, but I am pretty sure) it was either the name of the, wife's mother (Pesach Raisa daughter of Golda Chaia) or perhaps of the midwife, who was frequently mentioned in those certificates. The male child might well not have received a given name until the b'rit mila ceremony or, if a first-born mail, the pidyin ha-ben. Infant mortality what it was, it was sometimes considered unlucky to name a child too soon.
    This is actually what you can make out of the text itself, i.e. that the child was given the name Golda Chaja. Could you please tell why you think it isn't so? Could it be that the baby bore the name of its mother or the midwife and later received its own name at the b'rit mila?

    Tom
     

    PocketWatch

    Member
    USA English
    This is a birth certificate of my great great grandmother. Her name was Chaja-Golda.

    It's interesting that you mentioned the dates from the different calendars. Wasn't the 30th of April mentioned at the beginning of the certificate? Does that refer to maybe when it was registered? Then April 9/21 would be the date of birth maybe...
     
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