Bitch/bitchy

moodywop

Banned
Italian - Italy
systema encephale said:
Well, I guess bitch:warn: may mean stronza:warn: when you refer to some girl you hate. But it also means a girl "renting" her body to "entertain" men for money, right?
According to the Cassell Dict of Slang the "prostitute" sense was only current until the mid-19th c.: the original use implied disapproval of the woman's sexuality... today's use focuses on her personality.

I think :warn: stronza is a bit too generic. A :warn: bitch is supposed to be "acida" and "maligna". I've always found the use of this word to be rather unfair, since a guy can be just as much of a :warn: bitch as a woman.

My question is - can a man be called "bitchy"?(my British friends say it can't be used to describe men). After all, a "bitchy remark" is gender-neutral:)
 
  • You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    moodywop said:
    According to the Cassell Dict of Slang the "prostitute" sense was only current until the mid-19th c.: the original use implied disapproval of the woman's sexuality... today's use focuses on her personality.

    I think :warn: stronza is a bit too generic. A :warn: bitch is supposed to be "acida" and "maligna". I've always found the use of this word to be rather unfair, since a guy can be just as much of a :warn: bitch as a woman.

    My question is - can a man be called "bitchy"?(my British friends say it can't be used to describe men). After all, a "bitchy remark" is gender-neutral:)
    In Australia the only men who are refered to as bitchy are gay. Straight men may make bitchy remarks but are not actually called bitchy. That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.

    Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a bitch. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.
     

    GaryD

    Senior Member
    English/land
    Charles Costante said:
    In Australia the only men who are refered to as bitchy are gay. Straight men may make bitchy remarks but are not actually called bitchy. That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.

    Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a bitch. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.
    I have heard non-gay men/comments made by them called bitchy but it was definitely in an ironic sense as if implying that the comments/actions were more suited to a (bitchy) woman (not that I'd ever be that sexist of course!:D )
    GaryD
     

    moodywop

    Banned
    Italian - Italy
    Charles Costante said:
    In Australia the only men who are refered to as bitchy are gay. Straight men may make bitchy remarks but are not actually called bitchy. That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.

    Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a bitch. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.
    Thanks, Charles. You confirmed what my British friends told me.

    Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?:D
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    moodywop said:
    Thanks, Charles. You confirmed what my British friends told me.

    Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?:D
    I think closet queen ranks high in the list.
    :warn: Son of a bitch would be in that list. Otherwise asshole, dickhead, mongrel, mother fucker, prick, or shit. :warn:
     

    GaryD

    Senior Member
    English/land
    moodywop said:
    Which raises the interesting question - what do straight men/women call a straight man who makes an inordinate number of bitchy remarks? A closet queen?:D
    Friendless?:D
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    systema encephale said:
    What's "closet queen"? I got the meaning reading other synonyms proposed, but do we have an equivalent in Italian?
    It's someone who chooses not to reveal his homosexuality. I couldn't find any Italian word for it. Oxford Paravia translates someone in the closet as uno che nasconde le proprie tendenze in this case their homosexuality. Garzanti translates someone who has come out of the closet as dichiararsi.
     

    moodywop

    Banned
    Italian - Italy
    Actually that could be the subject of a separate thread. This sense of "closet" has been extended to all kinds of contexts:

    a closet liberal
    a closet foodie
    a closet racist
    a closet snob
    a closet pedant
    a closet :warn: tart

    and lots more - as you can find out by googling "closet" + practically any word.

    In some cases "sotto mentite spoglie" might work: un razzista sotto mentite spoglie. But we don't have anything as colloquial or as widely (maybe excessively) used.
     

    TimLA

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    Charles Costante said:
    In Australia the only men who are refered to as bitchy are gay. Straight men may make bitchy remarks but are not actually called bitchy. That term is used exclusively in regard to women. That's my experience anyway.

    Edit: I've only heard women and gay men actually call a gay man a bitch. I've never heard a straight man say that of anyone but a woman.
    For the less experienced Italians, a "bitch" is a female dog, and if you go to dog shows, the word is used VERY often. I was uncomfortable saying it at first.

    In Los Angeles (different country, different language) it is possible to use the verb to describe a man's actions just like Charles said -"stop bitching at me!" - stop nagging me. But most of the time it refers to women, and is used in the gay community (as stated by many others here).
     
    In addition, in modern AE slang a man may call another man "bitch" as an insult. I believe this comes from prison slang, where a "bitch" is a dominant prisoner's involuntary homosexual partner.

    "To bitch" is to complain a lot. "He's always bitching when they try to get him to work overtime then bitching because he misses out on the extra money."
     

    moodywop

    Banned
    Italian - Italy
    In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    Dunque la parola "acidona" che ho sentito qualche volta può essere un'altra possibilità per "bitch"?

    Non ho mai sentito "acidono"; si usa questa parola per gli uomini o no?
     

    TimLA

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    moodywop said:
    In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.
    Inizio Io:

    (alcune in ripetizione)

    strega, vecchia strega, befana, bruta, dispettosa, schifosa, acido - acidulo, acerbo, malevolo, duro, forte, asciutto, selvaggio, selvatico, ostile

    aver buco, aver culo

    brontolare
    lamentarsi
    la regina nelle carte e negli scacchi
     

    moodywop

    Banned
    Italian - Italy
    ElaineG said:
    Dunque la parola "acidona" che ho sentito qualche volta può essere un'altra possibilità per "bitch"?

    Non ho mai sentito "acidono"; si usa questa parola per gli uomini o no?
    Un uomo acido è "un acidone". Secondo me "acido" va benissimo per "bitchy":

    1b agg., fig., astioso e malevolo: un carattere a., una risposta, una persona acida (De Mauro)

    Per quanto riguarda :warn: "bitch" continuo a non essere d'accordo su :warn: "stronza". Quest'ultimo può andar bene quando la parola inglese viene usata genericamente come termine offensivo per descrivere una persona antipatica, ma non quando ha il senso preciso di "astioso e malevolo"
     

    GaryD

    Senior Member
    English/land
    moodywop said:
    In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.
    And one with a BE equivalent - acid tounge (no, not a complaint needing medical attention) or acid remark could be ascribed to a bitchy comment
    GaryD
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Secondo me descrivere una donna come acida ha un significato, descriverla come stronza ha tutt'altro significato.

    Anche in italiano bitch può essere tradotto come "cagna", con significato di cane femmina (non volgare, anche se di solito preferiamo usare cagnetta, a meno che pesi 120 kg! :D), o con significato spregiativo riferito a una donna.

    Ad ogni modo il significato più usato credo sia quello già menzionato, ovvero "stronza":warn:

    L'equivalente maschile in significato, in termini comportamentali, ho sempre pensato fosse "jerk".
     

    Elisa68

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Da quanto ho letto qui bitch implica anche una certa cattiveria, connotazione che acida/o invece non ha, checché ne dica il De Mauro che definisce acido come malevolo; vorrei sentire però anche l'opinione degli altri su questo :).

    Secondo me una persona acida è una persona ostile, forse anche odiosa, ma non necessariamente cattiva.

    Credo che la traduzione migliore possa essere troia:warn: parola usata ormai non solo per indicare una whore:warn:, ma anche per indicare una persona cattiva. Certo è solo al femminile.
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Una persona si definisce acida quando risponde in modo brusco, secco, scontroso (that is grumpy and surly) e via dicendo. Così intendo di solito l'uso del termine. Perciò sì, Elisa, traspare una certa ostilità, ma può essere una cosa passeggera, relativa ad una giornata particolare per esempio... "Come sei acida oggi!".

    Non sono d'accordo sull'altro traducente da te suggerito, molto forte, pesante, e che io non ho mai sentito usare nel senso che tu hai indicato (credo che tu lo intenda per stronza).
     

    Alfry

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Io considero acida una donna quando ad ogni domanda risponde in modo un po' troppo prevenuto e velenoso anche se la domanda era innoqua;
    la considero stronza se non si limita a risposte acide e velenose ma passa anche ai fatti.

    Esempio:

    A: Ciao Elisa, come stai?
    E: Non sono cavolacci tuoi
    A: Siamo acide oggi?

    A: Ciao Elisa, come stai?
    E: Non sono cavolacci tuoi, anzi adesso vado dal capo e gli dico che mi hai dato un pizzicotto al sedere
    A: Oltre che acide siamo anche :warning: stronzette forti oggi?
     

    ElaineG

    Senior Member
    USA/English
    systema encephale said:
    correzione ;)

    Sono d'accordo anch'io con Alfry. Ma riguardo la traduzione? Bitch:warn: mi sembra più forte di un semplice acida.
    Well, we should distinguish between "bitch" used as an epithet ("troia" probably comes closest in my experience of how it's used by people in daily life, although "troia" has the implication of being a slut, which "bitch" doesn't have") and "bitch" used as a descriptive term.

    Thus, furious drunk husband screaming at his wife: "Fuck off, you stupid bitch!" :warn: :warn: :warn: Here, bitch is just a nasty epithet to be insulting and make her feel bad -- no specific content. Living in a small street in Sicily where you could hear everyone's business, I did hear "troia" being used this way, more than I care to remember! Maybe "stronza" too, but I don't remember hearing that as much.

    "Be careful of the women who is Head of Human Resources. She can be a real bitch when she wants to be." Here, you're describing a specific character trait -- usually meaning that she is nasty and cutting when she wants to be. This is where I think acida and acidona come into play.

    See also:

    Elaine: I thought we required standard language forms on this forum, but it seems, Alfry, that maybe hippos are too stupid and slow to grasp that.

    Alfry: I'm trying my best, Elaine, you don't have to be a bitch about it.

    There, bitch is describing a specific behavior.

     

    Alfry

    Senior Member
    Italian
    systema encephale said:
    correzione ;)

    Sono d'accordo anch'io con Alfry. Ma riguardo la traduzione? Bitch:warn: mi sembra più forte di un semplice acida.
    Si son d'accordo anche io, grazie della correzione,
    erroraccio da bacchettata sulle dita :D
     

    Silvia

    Senior Member
    Italian
    ElaineG said:
    although "troia":warn: :warn: :warn: has the implication of being a slut, which "bitch" doesn't have")
    Indeed.

    ElaineG said:
    Thus, furious drunk husband screaming at his wife: "Fuck off, you stupid bitch!" :warn: :warn: :warn: Here, bitch is just a nasty epithet to be insulting and make her feel bad -- no specific content. Living in a small street in Sicily where you could hear everyone's business, I did hear "troia" being used this way, more than I care to remember! Maybe "stronza" too, but I don't remember hearing that as much.
    That might be a matter of place (North/South)

    ElaineG said:
    "Be careful of the women who is Head of Human Resources. She can be a real bitch when she wants to be." Here, you're describing a specific character trait -- usually meaning that she is nasty and cutting when she wants to be. This is where I think acida and acidona come into play.
    No, I don't think so. Stronza :warn: is the word.

    ElaineG said:
    I'm trying my best, Elaine, you don't have to be a bitch about it.
    Ce la metto tutta, Elaine, non devi... (e qui tutto dipende dal grado di volgarità che si vuole adottare, I would start from this) rompere le palle.
     

    raffavita

    Senior Member
    italian
    Mi sono appena imbattuta in "bitchy" anche io.
    Nel contesto che ho, sembra proprio che :warn:"stronza" sia la soluzione più adatta.
    Vorrei sapere se siete d'accordo.
    Ecco il contesto:
    "Bitchy" is the word used by a woman to define another woman who cheats on a man and puts the blame on him for her actions.

    "I found her behaviour :warn:bitchy and cheap."

    "Trovo che si sia comportata da stronza:warn: e in modo meschino."
    But what could I say if I needed to used :warn:"bitchy" as referred to the behaviour itself?"
    "Il suo comportamento è ? e meschino."

    I'm asking this because I have many sentences with :warn:"bitchy."

    Thank you very much.
    Raffa
     

    raffavita

    Senior Member
    italian
    Hi Niklavjus,
    "ignobile" sounds perfect.
    I thought of "crudele".

    "The things she did were bitchy and cheap."
    "Quello che ha fatto è crudele/ignobile e meschino."

    Che ne dici?
    Grazie mille.
     

    niklavjus

    Senior Member
    Italiano (Italia)
    I thought of "crudele".

    "The things she did were bitchy and cheap."
    "Quello che ha fatto è crudele/ignobile e meschino."

    Che ne dici?
    Forse non sono il più adatto per dare pareri dal momento che conosco quel termine solo da ieri, ma se va bene "malvagio" perché no? Mi erano passati per la mente anche "perfido" (l'ingannatrice citata più sopra lo è di sicuro) e "perverso". E se, come dici, il termine è frequente forse dovresti valutare l'idea di arrichire le sfumature del testo concedendoti qualche libertà espressiva.
    Altre definizioni per "bitchy", oltre quelle già viste nel thread: "odioso", "arrogante", "dispettoso", "malizioso" etc.
    Forse per "bitch" in qualche caso si potrebbe usare "vipera".

    Anche "cheap" è una parolina densa di significati. Vuol anche dire "a buon mercato", no?

    "Le cose che faceva erano crudeli e gratuite" (?)

    La scelta dell'imperfetto non è significativa, e non so nemmeno se è corretta, non farci caso.
     

    Musical Chairs

    Senior Member
    Japan & US, Japanese & English
    If a guy does something mean, a younger person may say, "ugh, he's such a bitch" but it's meant to be a little funny because a bitch is normally a woman. But people my age say it often enough.

    Though, guys and girls alike can be called "assholes" and "dicks" too.
     

    raffavita

    Senior Member
    italian
    Ciao a tutti,
    ciao Niklavjus.
    "Maligno" non mi convince nel contesto che ho.
    La ragazza che parla del comportamento della donna che ha tradito, non avrebbe usato "maligno".
    Preferisco di gran lunga il "perfido" che suggerivi tu.
    Non so, ho seguito i dialoghi tra i due e sono convinta che la ragazza non userebbe "maligno". Sta dicendo che la donna è in cattiva fede, che è meschina e cattiva, ma maligna mi suona troppo fairy tales, non ci posso fare niente.
    Grazie mille per la collaborazione e per il consiglio ("perfido" sounds perfect).
    Grazie a tutti.
    Raffa
     

    niklavjus

    Senior Member
    Italiano (Italia)
    "Maligno" non mi convince nel contesto che ho.
    Scusami, non mi sono ben spiegato. Volevo semplicemente risponderti in merito all'uso di "crudele".
    "Maligno", così come gli altri possibili sinonimi che ho citato, sono riportati da diverse fonti (vedi i link).
    La scelta dei termini dipende dal contesto, e dalla tua sensibilità, naturalmente.
     

    raffavita

    Senior Member
    italian
    Grazie Niklavjus.
    La cosa più assurda è che tu "maligno" non l'avevi neanche detto.:eek:
    In effetti, si presta a mille interpretazioni.
    Sono due giorni che ci penso:eek:
    Grazie mille per il tuo aiuto e scusami tu se non ho capito.
    Rafs
     

    Tiger_Rose_13

    Member
    American English
    In order to keep this thread on the right track maybe we should try and come up with Italian equivalents for "bitchy". How about "acido"? Like "bitchy", it can be used to refer both to a person and to a remark. And it's non-sexist to boot, since it can be used to describe men and women.
    I'd use "maliziosa." The book Hide this Italian Book from Berlitz gives that as the translation of "bitchy" on page 70.
     

    shakalaka

    Senior Member
    italiano
    L'altro giorno in una puntata Big Bang Theory, Penny è stata apostrofata da un'altra ragazza con "stronza:warning:", ma sulle labbra si è letto chiaramente il "bitch:warning:"
     

    Nico2

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    In colloquial speech:

    The bartender was really bitchy.


    What would be a commonly translation for "bitchy" in Italian? I see options here in WR for bitchy (maligno, malevolo, dispettoso) but it is not clear what is colloquially used or how. Thanks.
     
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    Nico2

    Senior Member
    English, U.S.
    I like :warn:cazzone, considering how often i hear variants of:warn: cazzo everywhere. It seems OK to me as a noun.
    Sono :warn:cazzone/i. They are bitchy people
     
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    horace.mik

    Senior Member
    Russian and Italian - bilingual
    I can't see why ":warn:cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un :warn:cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Paulfromitaly

    MODerator
    Italian
    I can't see why "cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".
    You can't see it? Because it is a NOUN while bitchy is an ADJECTIVE.
     

    horace.mik

    Senior Member
    Russian and Italian - bilingual
    This is more than clear to me, and I agree with you, but I've translated by following the sense of what Nico2 had required.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    This is more than clear to me, and I agree with you, but I've translated by following the sense of what Nico2 had required.
    Aldilà del fatto che :warn:cazzone è un sostantivo, per me in ogni caso non traduce il senso di 'bitchy'. Se dico che qualcuno è bitchy non intendo certamente dire che è un :warn:cazzone. Parlando di un barista, io l''intendo come gli altri, sgorbutico, maleducato, perfino acido.
     

    Odysseus54

    Mod huc mod illuc
    Italian - Marche
    I can't see why ":warn:cazzone" is not fine. For example, sitting in a bar with a friend of mine, I tell him "Il barista mi pare un :warn:cazzone" (considering the context explained by Nico2 before editing for the rules reasons). Personally, in situations like that I never use "scorbutico, scostante, o lunatico".
    The reason why I would not use your translation ( ricordati i :warn:, che servono ai non-italiani ) , is because it is generic ( idiot, :warn:asshole, etc. ) , and because it is stronger than the English 'bitchy'.

    Having said which, the fact remains that 'bitchy' is used more often than we would use 'scorbutico' and 'scostante' , and that the register is different.

    Another one that I think is pretty close in register could be 'antipatico', but not always.

    Right now I can't think of anything better..
     
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