Borrowings from Arabic

cyanista

законодательница мод
NRW
Belarusian/Russian
cherine said:
By the way, this is a very interesting question, I've never known that Russian can have words in common with Arabic :)
There are many more. :) Do you recognize some of these: bazar, divan, kanat, saraj, karavan, sunduk, admiral?
 
  • papillon

    Senior Member
    Russian (Ukraine)
    cyanista said:
    Do you recognize some of these: bazar, divan, kanat, saraj, karavan, sunduk, admiral?
    This is interesting. I was tought in school that these were of turkic origin and came to Russian via the Mongol-Tartars.
    Or perhaps, was there a sort of word adaptation trend at some point in history of turkic -> arabic or arabic -> turkic?
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    I don't know exactly about all the words listed by Cyanista, but admiral does come from Arabic!
    The original Arabic word was amir-al-bar, or something like that. This means 'prince of the sea'. Maybe Cherine will tell us more about this word?..
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Yes, Amir al baHr أمير البحر is "prince of the sea" :)
    As for the other words :
    bazar, divan, kanat, saraj, karavan, sunduk, admiral?
    Bazar, is not of Arabic origin, it's either Turkish or Persian, I'm not sure.
    I think Divan is from Persian
    Kanat is Arabic قناة = channel
    saraj سراج = lamp
    Karavan is, I think, from Turkish origin.
    sunduk صندوق = box
    Are these the same usages as in Russian ?


    Jana, sorry to tamper the Slavic forum with non-Slavic words. Feel free to split this thread (and sorry for the trouble) :)
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    cherine said:
    Yes, Amir al baHr أمير البحر is "prince of the sea" :)
    Uh oh... Sorry for the mistake. :)

    As for the other words :


    Bazar, is not of Arabic origin, it's either Turkish or Persian, I'm not sure.
    I think Divan is from Persian
    Kanat is Arabic قناة = channel
    saraj سراج = lamp
    Karavan is, I think, from Turkish origin.
    sunduk صندوق = box
    Are these the same usages as in Russian ?


    Jana, sorry to tamper the Slavic forum with non-Slavic words. Feel free to split this thread (and sorry for the trouble) :)
    In Russian, kanat means rope or cable, saraj is shed, and sunduk is what in English is called a chest (which is, in fact, a box!)
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    cherine said:
    Jana, sorry to tamper the Slavic forum with non-Slavic words. Feel free to split this thread (and sorry for the trouble) :)
    Hola Širín, :) I may split it but it will remain in the Slavic forum. :p

    Let me add magazin.

    Jana
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Thanks Jana :) (and sorry again for the trouble)

    Magazin (I didn't know it was used in Russian too) comes from the Arabic makhzan مخزن (or it's plural : makhaazin) مخازن = store, warehouse...
    What does it mean in Russian ?

    Etcetera said:
    Uh oh... Sorry for the mistake. :)
    Not at all, it's not even a mistake, the letter you've missed H= ح doesn't exist in many foreign language, so you wouldn't be pronouncing it anyway :)

    In Russian, kanat means rope or cable, saraj is shed, and sunduk is what in English is called a chest (which is, in fact, a box!)
    For Qanat to become cable, needs a bit of imagination :D
    Very Interesting thread. I think I'll consider more seriously my old wish of learning Russian :)
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Magazin (I didn't know it was used in Russian too) comes from the Arabic makhzan مخزن (or it's plural : makhaazin) مخازن = store, warehouse...
    What does it mean in Russian ?
    The same, to my knowledge. :)

    Jana
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    In Russian, magazin is a shop, so this word has the same meaning! How interesting. I feel the next language I'll be learning will most probably be Arabic!:)
     

    Thomas F. O'Gara

    Senior Member
    English USA
    Cyanista, are you saying saraj or saray?

    Saray, meaning a shed, is not an Arabic word. I believe it's Tartar, although it might be Persian.

    Чемодан is another word from the Middle East, although not, I believe, from Arabic. The Persian word is the same. Базар is definitely from the Persian.

    Нефть is most decidedly and absolutely an Arabic word; it means the same in Arabic. There are some food terms that are of Arabic origin, most notably Халва, which I believe came via Persian, hence the shift in accent from the Arabic.



    "Sunduk" is definitely Arabic.
     

    cyanista

    законодательница мод
    NRW
    Belarusian/Russian
    Thanks for correcting me, everyone. My source proved to be not that reliable. :eek: Anyway, my comment triggered an interesting discussion.:)
     

    papillon

    Senior Member
    Russian (Ukraine)
    So how I guess the question is : How exactly did these words come into Russian? After all, Slavs seldom had direct contact with the Arab world.

    The most logical explanation is through the Golden Orde, which was, perhaps in contact with other khanats, particularly in the middle East. The other possible route is borrowing from the languages of the Central Asia, s.a. Uzbeki, which in turn were in close contact with Arab merchants and scholars.

    The Admiral is likely a different case, since it came to us via Europe.
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Thomas F. O'Gara said:
    Чемодан ...Нефть... Халва
    My attempts at transliteration: "chemodan," "neft," and "chalva."

    I do not recognize the first word.
    If the second word means "petrol," then it's from Arabic.
    If the third word means "sweet" or "pastry," then it's probably from Persian via Arabic. In Arabic its "Halwa" (the "H" is the hard guttural in "amiir al-baHr); the "H" would have shifted to "ch" and the "w" to "v" (which Arabic doesn't even have).
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    "Халва" would be better transcribed as "khalva". Russian has only one version of "kh", Arabic has h, H and kh, all of which would be transliterated with the Russian letter "х" (kh), which maches more or less the Arabic خ (kh) in pronunciation. "W" is also non-existent in Russian. So حَلاوة (Halwa) can only be written as "халва" in Russian.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halwa


     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    حلاوة is a word in Arabic but

    -it is pronounced differently (Halaawa)
    -it is not a general word for "sweet" or "pastry" but refers to a specific (sweet) food

    Of course, the Russian word could have come from either one, but for the above reasons I would guess that it came from حلوى.
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    I'll give an example of a reverse - a Slavic word borrowed into Arabic with a changed meaning.
    Wikipedia:
    The Arabic name for Austria, النمسا ("an-namsa"), is derived from the Slavonic term.
    cf.: немецкий (Russian: nyemyetskiy - "German"), niemiecki (Polish: the same)
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Anatoli said:
    I'll give an example of a reverse - a Slavic word borrowed into Arabic with a changed meaning.
    Wikipedia:
    cf.: немецкий (Russian: nyemyetskiy - "German"), niemiecki (Polish: the same)
    Click! :)

    Jana
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Sorry, didn't know it was already posted, Jana. Feel free to remove my post. For me it was a discovery of today, anyway, when I tried to figure out how to read the Arabic word. The source I used was Wikipedia, not this forum.
     

    Thomas F. O'Gara

    Senior Member
    English USA
    Regarding the халва issue, yes, the Russian word comes ultimately from Arabic "halwa" or "halawa." In standard transliteration, the initial "h" usually has a dot underneath it. Russian, lacking any h sound except for the "x", has to use that letter to transliterate all three Arabic letters ح خ and ه

    To all appearances the word came to Russian via Farsi, since the "w" sound is represented by a Russian "в" but even more tellingly by the fact that the Russian word puts the accent on the final syllable, which is in accordance with Farsi practice, and not in accordance with Arabic. The word is common in all areas of the world affected by Islamic culture, and can be found in Hindi/Urdu and the Central Asian languages as well.
     

    MindStorm

    Member
    Russia, russian
    I'm the mathematical mind, so I know that words Алгебра (Algebra) and Алгоритм (Algorythm) were borrowed from arabic, too, but they didn't have such meanings as they do now. I can't remember exactly, but I think those were parts of the mathematical book title or even author's name! Please correct me if I'm wrong
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    Al-Chwárizmí (born in todays Uzbekistan) was a Persian mathematician.

    His work: Al-Kitab al-Jabr wa-l-Muqabala
     
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