both Jack and you

OhMan

Member
English, AUS
Which is correct?
I hear both Jack and you enjoy steak.
-OR-
I hear both you and Jack enjoy steak.
-OR-
I hear Jack and you both enjoy steak.
-OR-
I hear you and Jack both enjoy steak.


Grammar confused,
OhMan.
 
  • owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    Hello, Oh Man. No wonder this confuses you. :) All your sentences are correct. I'm inclined to view "both" as a conjunction here that serves to coordinate two things, "you" and "Jack". I also think a good argument could be made for "both" as an adjective; however, I'm not sure that this interpretation can explain why "both" can take so many different places in the word order in these sentences. I'll be curious to read what others think.
     

    OhMan

    Member
    English, AUS
    I could of sworn there was some sort of rule about having the name before/after the you/me/I?

    If I replaced you with me or I (and cut out I hear) would it still be grammatically correct?
     

    owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    Speakers often use the other person's name before "I", "you", etc. as a matter of courtesy. There's no "rule" saying that you have to use it this way: Jack and I both enjoy steak. = I and Jack both enjoy steak. Saying "Jack and you" doesn't sound odd to me. Neither does saying "you and Jack".
     

    sdgraham

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Now you're wandering into somewhat new territory since you're not only talking about the order of reference but proper use of a pronoun for the subject of a sentence.

    1. I always learned to put myself last
    2. "Me" is never the subject of a clause.

    Unfortunately, a large number of supposedly educated people violate both precepts quite regularly.
     

    dn88

    Senior Member
    Polish
    I could of sworn there was some sort of rule about having the name before/after the you/me/I?

    If I replaced you with me or I (and cut out I hear) would it still be grammatically correct?
    Both Jack and I enjoy steak.

    I think in the sentence above it's considered more polite to mention the other person first, especially to avoid the ungrammatical "me and Jack enjoy". But I guess if you're talking to someone, the person you're talking to should be mentioned first.
     
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