bottega storica

Fate di Riso

New Member
Italian
Hi everyone,

I need help with this phrase: "La macelleria Gallo è una storica bottega di Mirano." This is my try: "The butcher's shop Gallo is a historical business in Mirano" but I don't like it at all. I don't think "historical" traslates "storica" here. Any suggestions?

thanks

Sara
 
  • Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Ciao, Sara :)
    io mescolerei un po' gli elementi: Macelleria Gallo is a historic* butcher shop in Mirano.

    * historical
    è aggettivo relativo alla "storia" intesa come studio degli eventi/figure/contesti del passato.
    butcher shop (senza 's) è inequivocabilmente negozio/bottega di macelleria.
    Avrei qualche dubbio invece su historic business, ma lascio che lo sciolgano i madrelingua.;)
     

    rrose17

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    Historic business makes it sound like it's very famous and somehow monumental. Like a historic tennis match. Historical might mean it no longer exists. Can you just say traditional? Or perhaps something like
    Macelleria Gallo, in business for many years, is a well-known butcher shop in Mirano.
     

    Fate di Riso

    New Member
    Italian
    yes, I can use "well-known", do you think "historic" cannot be used when talking about a shop? I mean: is it too pretentious? thanks for the explanation.

    Sara
     

    rrose17

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    I'd say historic is used, often as in Italian, like the historic old city in Rome, but for a butcher shop is sounds distinctly odd, like maybe there had been a famous person working there or a famous murder took place there. It usually means there was some big event at some point, like I said a historic tennis match, or a historic meeting between world leaders; something that makes it stand out in history.
     

    metazoan

    Senior Member
    US English
    In California, anything over 100 years old is historical :). Your butcher shop might qualify by that rule. Also, historical is used interchangeably with historic.
     

    rrose17

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    historical is used interchangeably with historic.
    Not so sure about that. In my mind they aren't. I found this that explains it better than I could.

    Something that is historical is simply something that happened in the past, regardless of its significance. As William Safire once said, “Any past event is historical, but only the most memorable ones are historic.” This is a good way to think about the difference between these two words.
     

    metazoan

    Senior Member
    US English
    Not so sure about that. In my mind they aren't. I found this that explains it better than I could.

    Something that is historical is simply something that happened in the past, regardless of its significance. As William Safire once said, “Any past event is historical, but only the most memorable ones are historic.” This is a good way to think about the difference between these two words.
    I won't argue with your grammatical analysis, yet I see approximately equal google hits to "historic monument" as to "historical monument"
     

    by the sea

    New Member
    American English -- U.S.A. (California)
    To me “storied” suggests a famous building that has a long or interesting history but isn’t necessarily historically significant. I have seen this word used to describe shops that have been around for decades and become fixtures of communities. Just now, too, I did find a reference to a “storied meat department” on the Web. I am not sure how storied this Gallo butcher’s shop might be, though.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Not so sure about that. In my mind they aren't. I found this that explains it better than I could.

    Something that is historical is simply something that happened in the past, regardless of its significance. As William Safire once said, “Any past event is historical, but only the most memorable ones are historic.” This is a good way to think about the difference between these two words.
    Agreed. I also make this distinction.
    I'd say "long-established".
    So would I.
     

    stez

    Senior Member
    english - australia
    Just as one speaks of bar istituzionali in Italian, long-established and reputable commercial enterprises can be described as institutions in English, though the adjectival form ‘institutional’ would be best avoided.

    Gallo’s Butchery (or Macelleria Gallo) has long been an institution in Mirano.
     
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