bring - brang - brung :)

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MrMagoo

Senior Member
Westphalia, Germany; German
Hello everybody,

I would like to know who of you uses "brang" and "brung" (past tense and past participle of bring) instead of brought.
(Even if it's only in spoken, and not in written English)

Who of you uses "brought" but would not regard "bring" and "brung" to be wrong?!
Who of you only uses "brought" and would say "brang" and "brung" are wrong?!


Thanks for your opinions! :)

Best wishes
-MrMagoo
 
  • CAMullen

    Senior Member
    US, English
    Not to wave my nose in the air and feign superiority over anyone else, but I doubt that users of "brang" and "brung" would be very interested in the finer points of English usage.
     

    Conchita57

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain/French - Switzerland
    You can put me between the second and the third category (it reminds me of a certain station platform in the first Harry Potter film!). I mean that, to me, bring, brought, brought is standard English, whereas bring, brang, brung is used in some dialects, or so I've heard.
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    Conchita57 said:
    You can put me between the second and the third category (it reminds me of a certain station platform in the first Harry Potter film!). I mean that, to me, bring, brought, brought is standard English, whereas bring, brang, brung is used in some dialects, or so I've heard.
    Oh yep, I know that "brang/brung" is not standard, but I just want to know whether you find these forms weird or inaccurate in any way or whether you'd accept them to be okay; would you e.g. "correct" children who say "brang/brung" and tell them to say "brought"? :)
     

    MrMagoo

    Senior Member
    Westphalia, Germany; German
    CAMullen said:
    Not to wave my nose in the air and feign superiority over anyone else, but I doubt that users of "brang" and "brung" would be very interested in the finer points of English usage.
    I see... so you'd say these forms are used only by people who have no greater knowledge of their language?!
     

    Span_glish

    Senior Member
    Guatemala, Spanish
    Mark Twain in Adventures of Huckleberry Finn wrote: "I give her a turn with the paddle and brung her nose to shore; then I got my gun and slipped out and into the edge of the woods."

    It was entirely written in the first-person point of view, in the vernacular tounge of an uneducated boy living on the Mississippi River during the 1840s. (Sorry I can't give you the reference, I'm not allowed to post URLS yet)

    That might explain why it's mostly used in the South.
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    You have got to be joking:eek:
    I have never heard brang.
    Children sometimes say brung as both past tense and participle, but usually have grown out of it by the age of four.
     

    CAMullen

    Senior Member
    US, English
    No, I am serious. I was born in the late forties in a poor factory city ten miles north of Boston, and occasionally heard it there in the fifties. I haven't heard it used in decades, but bear in mind that back then, there were people who didn't listen regularly to radio, let alone television, cell (or any) phone, or any form of mass communication. Today, most people alive have probably never heard anyone use "brang."
     

    CAMullen

    Senior Member
    US, English
    Let me just break the deafening silence by saying, Yes Mr. Magoo, I'd say these forms are used only by people who have no greater knowledge of their language. At least of the prescriptive rules of their language, since they (and we) would all understand what they were saying. :)
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    According to Wikipedia, you will find more uses of "brang"and "brung" in Dublin than you will of "æ", but neither are acceptable as modern standard English.
    According to Webster's dictionary, brang and brung are Scottish for brought.
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    OK - I understand the logic behind the use of brang and brung.
    As I said, kids learning the patterns of word manipulation will do this kind of thing all the time - they will say I runned, until they learn to say I ran.

    Although I have heard brung, as part of this learning process, I have not heard anyone say brang, hence the :eek:

    The Wiki reference to Dublin, bring, brang and ae, is part of a discussion - and in any case, all Wiki needs to be read with critical faculties and natural scepticism fully alerted.

    OK, I confess to having heard brung used facetiously.
    OK, OK, I confess to having used brung - for fun - I swear it:eek:
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    panjandrum said:
    OK - I understand the logic behind the use of brang and brung.
    As I said, kids learning the patterns of word manipulation will do this kind of thing all the time - they will say I runned, until they learn to say I ran.

    Although I have heard brung, as part of this learning process, I have not heard anyone say brang, hence the :eek:

    The Wiki reference to Dublin, bring, brang and ae, is part of a discussion - and in any case, all Wiki needs to be read with critical faculties and natural scepticism fully alerted.

    OK, I confess to having heard brung used facetiously.
    OK, OK, I confess to having used brung - for fun - I swear it:eek:
    You're being oversensitive Panj. I didn't quote Wiki to contradict you. :) My point, which I probably didn't make very clearly, is that it seems dialectal because it appears to be heard in Scotland and Ireland.
    What part of Ireland are you from anyway?
     

    CAMullen

    Senior Member
    US, English
    You're right. It does demand a lot of the listener to forgive the harshness of the word to enjoy the rest of the song. That happens to me, too.
     

    thebeagle56

    New Member
    English, USA
    Not to be a snob, but "brang" and "brung" make me cringe. I hear them quite often, and to me, they have a connotation of lack of education. I live in the South (I'm not from the South, though), so I hear it quite often. That may be a stereotype, though; anyway, brought sounds so much better.

    In reference to post #8, I do indeed hear "brung" more often as the past participle among young children, but only up to about age 5 or so.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I would only ever say "brought."

    I would undoubtedly consider them dialectical, and would most certainly correct a child who used them.

    As others have said, "brang" sounds especially dissonant. Not that "brung" sounds good, but I'd be more likely to expect it.
     

    grumpus

    Senior Member
    English U.S.
    MrMagoo said:
    Hello everybody,

    I would like to know who of you uses "brang" and "brung" (past tense and past participle of bring) instead of brought.
    (Even if it's only in spoken, and not in written English)

    Who of you uses "brought" but would not regard "bring" and "brung" to be wrong?!
    Who of you only uses "brought" and would say "brang" and "brung" are wrong?!


    Thanks for your opinions! :)

    Best wishes
    -MrMagoo

    HI Mr Magoo,
    I use brought, but a lot of my family uses brang and brung ( also I have ate or I have aten).
    It's definitely a question of "education". Brang/brung would be stigmatized as uneducated.
    Although I am sure "educated" speakers may say "brung" some times when they are not being careful.

    Grumpus
     

    cas29

    Senior Member
    Canada/English
    It grates on my ear too, to hear brang and brung - but you do hear them. I have to agree that I equate this kind of usage with lack of eductation. -- or as mentioned, small children (or adult learners) overgeneralizing on rules).

    My 4 year old niece recently made an error in something she was doing, and my sister asked her "Did you forget?" - The little one's reply was , "No mummy, not THAT many!" A puzzled look elicited "I only THREE-GETTED!"
     

    maxiogee

    Banned
    imithe
    In 55 years in Dublin I have never, ever come across the use of brang.

    As panjandrum says we used brung when we were young, most notedly in the riposte to someone who would deride one's manners by asking "Where were you brought up?". The accepted answer to such a 'challenge' was...
    "I wasn't brought up, I was brung up!
    And people like you should be strung up!"

    I don't know if this derived from children emulating their elders' use of 'brung" or was just children revelling in the poetry of words. I don't recall hearing 'brung' for a long time and can't quite imagine anyone saying something like "I brung me car to the garage" (that 'me' is a Dublinism/Irishism for 'my'.)
     

    Brioche

    Senior Member
    Australia English
    Charles Costante said:
    You're being oversensitive Panj. I didn't quote Wiki to contradict you. :) My point, which I probably didn't make very clearly, is that it seems dialectal because it appears to be heard in Scotland and Ireland.
    What part of Ireland are you from anyway?[/quote]

    Panj is obviously from Northern Ireland -
    you can tell the other sort from their interpupillary distance.

    I've heard both brang and brung.
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    Christine-Brinn said:
    Could you tell me in exactly what region of the UK you heard either/both of these words?
    Christine, I think we are having problems with the computer program because I didn't make that statement. I had problems with the names being switched around with this post. I had to correct it manually.
     

    Kelly B

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Christine-Brinn said:
    Could you tell me in exactly what region of the UK you heard either/both of these words?
    The quote was from Brioche, who is from Australia.
     

    marget

    Senior Member
    Once we learn the principal parts of the verb and if we know how to apply the rules, we probably won't say "brang or brung" at all. When I was first learning my verbs, we would joke and say "bring, brang, brung,...sing, sang, sung. The correct formation of "sing" causes the confusion. I don't hear "brang" much anymore. I can't even imagine hearing "brung" In American English. These days, many native speakers (even fairly well-educated, whatever that means!) don't use the past participles of irregular verbs. I hear "they had already went", "they shoulda' did it, etc.
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    Charles Costante said:
    Christine, I think we are having problems with the computer program because I didn't make that statement. I had problems with the names being switched around with this post. I had to correct it manually.
    Comment on the apparent mis-quoting.
    If you look back up the thread, there is a Brioche post in which one of the quote tags is not recognised (part of the end-quote tag went blue).

    ChristineBrinn quoted that post, and the result is to make it look as if she's quoting you, not Brioche. Her post starts with a {quote=brioche} that doesn't have a matching end quote.

    Comment on the topic.
    Indeed I am from Northern Ireland (maxiogee and I share the island between us in total amicability) - thus localising my experience of brung and brang.

    As he says, we used brung for fun, and we'd still use it for fun. I really don't know if anyone uses it seriously. I've never heard brang.

    Off-topic comment.
    I didn't mean to sound sensitive - though it is usually more obvious than that if I'm feeling irritated:D It was more a case of posting at 2:30am and not being careful enough with the tone of the post.
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    Comment on the apparent mis-quoting.
    If you look back up the thread, there is a Brioche post in which one of the quote tags is not recognised (part of the end-quote tag went blue).

    ChristineBrinn quoted that post, and the result is to make it look as if she's quoting you, not Brioche. Her post starts with a {quote=brioche} that doesn't have a matching end quote.
    There was something wrong with the program last night because the same thing happened to me when I tried to put Christine's quote in my post. It swapped the names around. I had to manually change them. The problems seems to have been corrected now.
     

    AlonYo

    Member
    English / USA
    I actually find the use of "brang" to be quite pleasant. "Brung" sounds very strange to me, yet for some reason, when I hear "brang" I kind of enjoy it. I would like to start using it myself, at least in common speech. If it feels okay, then why not? Of course, "brought" seems more formal and educated, but frankly that takes too much out of me to say, and if "brang" feels easier and more natural, I will say it... it's my language! Of course one must watch who he or she says it around ("around whom he or she says it?"... psh, that's just silly and circumlocutory), but otherwise who cares? I think it's valid to use "brang" in analogy with "ring, rang, etc." I wouldn't say "ring, rought, rought" but that's an irregular form... "ring, rang, rung" is a regular form, so why not allow "bring" to line up with it?
     

    Orange Blossom

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    Okay folks, I've heard bring, brang, and brung used in proper syntactic use by my father who has a J.D., almost a Ph.D, and studied 4 languages besides English. But guess what? He was just having fun! But he has this fun in regular speech at home with all kinds of words. Because of this fun, it was shortly before my thirty-threeth birthday that I learned the "correct" past tense of squeeze was squeezed not squoze.

    squeeze, squoze, squozen

    I must say squeezed sounds just plain 'wrong' to me, even though I've learned it's 'right'.

    Orange Blossom
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    The dialect version is bring, brung, brung - around here. Brang isn't used. This is not really surprising because it goes with ring, rung, rung; do, done, done; and go, went, went.
     

    mplsray

    Senior Member
    You have got to be joking:eek:
    I have never heard brang.
    Children sometimes say brung as both past tense and participle, but usually have grown out of it by the age of four.
    I don't recall having heard people using brang either, but I'm sure that it's used in American English because it is an entry in Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged, identified as a "substand past of BRING."

    The label substand is discussed in the introductory pages of the dictionary:

    8.2.2 The stylistic label substand for "substandard" indicates status conforming to a pattern of linguistic usage that exists throughout the American language community but differs in choice of word or form from that of the prestige group in that community.
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    Brang isn't in the OED. Brung is - as a dialect form of the past tense and participle of bring. I wonder why I didn't look that up last year when this thread began (funny it should re-surface so close to its birthday).

    The AE brang could be from a differently-formed dialect structure - perhaps a structure that is more influenced by education than the bring, brung, brung version?
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Brang isn't in the OED. Brung is - as a dialect form of the past tense and participle of bring. I wonder why I didn't look that up last year when this thread began (funny it should re-surface so close to its birthday).

    The AE brang could be from a differently-formed dialect structure - perhaps a structure that is more influenced by education than the bring, brung, brung version?
    Is it perhaps a New York dialect? The reason I wonder that is that I find the Neil Diamond song "play me" absolutely beautiful in every respect other than the way he uses "brang" to make a rhyme with "rang" and "sprang". But now I wonder if I've been unfair and this is just his dialect rather than laziness to find a better rhyme.
     

    mplsray

    Senior Member
    Brang isn't in the OED. Brung is - as a dialect form of the past tense and participle of bring. I wonder why I didn't look that up last year when this thread began (funny it should re-surface so close to its birthday).

    The AE brang could be from a differently-formed dialect structure - perhaps a structure that is more influenced by education than the bring, brung, brung version?
    There are many pages which mention brang as a past tense of bring, but as a children's coinage. I doubt that Webster's Third would have included it in that usage, just as they would not have included mans for men.

    Looking for brang in actual dialectal use is complicated by the fact that brang is used as a pronunciation spelling for representing dialects in which [æ] replaces [I] in such words as sing and thing (such as in some Texas dialects).

    However, I managed to find two examples of brang being used in a past tense of bring. When I did a Google search for

    brang "appalachian dialect"

    (follow this link), I got hits for a page by Kathleen Mullins Dingus, who cites brang for brought in her page on Mountain Talk.

    The other link was to an archived article which one must pay to read, "The Grammar of the Ozark Dialect" by Vance Randolph, American Speech, Vol. 3, No. 1 (October 1927) pages 1-11. However, the little information displayed by Google shows

    bring brang, brung brung buy boughten boughten

    which leads me to think that the author was referring to two conjugations of bring: bring, brang, brung and bring, brung, brung. So it appears that the OED missed this cite from 1927. (It would not, of course, have appeared in the first edition, but if the editors of the OED had caught it, they could have put it in the latest edition).
     

    Orange Blossom

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    The dialect version is bring, brung, brung - around here. Brang isn't used. This is not really surprising because it goes with ring, rung, rung; do, done, done; and go, went, went.
    We have ring, rang, rung.

    We rang the bells during communion.

    The bells were rung during communion.

    By the way, my dad has jokingly used "branged" also. I branged in the groceries.

    Branged, of course would be a double past tense form like wented. :D

    Orange Blossom
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    You tempt me.
    Once upon a time the local newspaper would give examples of strange local usage. This included strange definitions. On one memorable occasion, they offered the following definition:
    goad - - - - - to went.
     

    Orange Blossom

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    You tempt me.
    Once upon a time the local newspaper would give examples of strange local usage. This included strange definitions. On one memorable occasion, they offered the following definition:
    goad - - - - - to went.
    Oh, that's hilarious, but - pardon me - wouldn't that be goed? ;)

    Hmm. In actual usage, other than my dad playing games, he has heard brung used but never brang.

    Orange Blossom
     

    brad243

    New Member
    Australia, English
    Yesterday someone lamented the fact that her 12 year old grand-daughter and many of her friends use brang, "I brang my whatever...", I am told they use it often, perhaps almost exclusively instead of brought. This is in an outer suburb of Melbourne, not recent migrant background.

    Today I spoke with a 95 year old, born in Melbourne, she said she heard brang and brung a lot when she was young, used by older people, "ever since there's been a reasonable education system people don't say that any more."
     

    brad243

    New Member
    Australia, English
    my research on brang and brung led me to this forum.

    I see it works like this:

    I think it works this way:

    bring, brang, brung

    I will bring, I brang, I have brung

    like:

    sing, sang, sung

    I can sing, I sang, I have sung

    ring, rang, rung

    I will ring the bell, I rang the bell, I have rung the bell

    **
    officially:

    I will bring, I brought, I have brought. The brought doesn't change, so the brang/brung system is obviously superior and more consistent.
     

    quickie

    New Member
    US
    You tempt me.
    Once upon a time the local newspaper would give examples of strange local usage. This included strange definitions. On one memorable occasion, they offered the following definition:
    goad - - - - - to went.
    I can see how "to went" might goad some people here. :)
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Senior Member
    English - England
    This isn't a case where the vigorous simple past has just been weakened, as happened to several verbs in the nineteenth century. In paras 30 and 31 of this commentary on a bit of Wordsworth's Prelude you see the poet saying clomb where we would say climbed.

    But brought has almost as vigorous an Anglo-Saxon ring as brung.

    And neither brang, nor brung are found in Shakespeare, who uses brought 266 times in the poems and plays. Chaucer doesn't use brang or brung either, and uses brought twice in the Canterbury Tales and, surprisingly, 18 times in Troilius and Criseyde.

    I find it hard to escape the conclusion of many others that this is an uneducated modern variant.
     

    Spectre scolaire

    Senior Member
    Maltese and Russian
    Reading this thread I am a bit surprised – in a language forum! – to see so much “prescriptive behaviour”. The first posting relating brang to the very normal phenomenon of language development – whether you like such a thing to happen to your own language or not - is #35:

    I don't recall having heard people using brang either, but I'm sure that it's used in American English because it is an entry in Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged, identified as a "substand past of BRING."

    The label substand is discussed in the introductory pages of the dictionary:

    8.2.2 The stylistic label substand for "substandard" indicates status conforming to a pattern of linguistic usage that exists throughout the American language community but differs in choice of word or form from that of the prestige group in that community.
    Orange Blossom(#39) is hinting at the logical explanation of this “uneducated” (#7) verbal form which, according to the same forero, --
    CAMullen said:
    I haven't heard [...] in decades, but bear in mind that back then, there were people who didn't listen regularly to radio, let alone television, [...]
    mplsray(#38) is then reviewing actual usage and brad243 (#43) is referring to the parallel verbal patterns of sing and ring – but nobody is naming the beast...

    Should we call it system pressure?

    If a change occurs in a dialect or in sub-standard language it is – or rather was (especially before the age of television ;) ) – very much a coincidence whether this change will be established in the system. One of the many reasons for change to occur in the first place is the great disparity of the existing system itself. In English we find verbs like:

    drink – drank – drunk
    ring – rang – rung
    sing – sang - sung
    stink – stank – stunk

    -- and the more “regular” type of conjugation like:

    call – called, hear – heard, say – said

    --even if the very term “regular” is somehow strange because the drink type represents a characterictic linguistic feature of all Germanic languages – as much as drinking has always been a cherished behaviour and indeed, quite an institution, among its early speakers.

    At the end of the day we are all more or less favouring puristic language – simply because we all read. To hear the form brang is one thing – to see it written is something very different. Even linguists will be shocked – or perhaps “only” extremely amused – if they should happen to see such a form in, say, J.K. Rowling. ;)

    As far as Neil Diamond is concerned – see the link provided by timpeac(#16)
    Song, she sang to me, song she brang to me,
    Words that rang in me, rhyme that sprang from me warmed the night.
    And what was right became me.
    You are the sun, I am the moon,
    You are the words, I am the tune, play me.
    -- I’d call this usage an artistic licence. ;)
    :) :)
     

    cuchuflete

    Senior Member
    EEUU-inglés
    Moderator note: The thread topic is repeated below, for those who have forgotten, or never read the first page of long threads with entrancing titles. Posts that address the thread topic are welcomed here. Those that do not will be brung before a magistrate and sentenced to invisibility.

    I would like to know who of you uses "brang" and "brung" (past tense and past participle of bring) instead of brought.
    (Even if it's only in spoken, and not in written English)

    Who of you uses "brought" but would not regard "bring" and "brung" to be wrong?!
    Who of you only uses "brought" and would say "brang" and "brung" are wrong?!
     

    ewie

    Senior Member
    English English
    Personally ... 99% of the time I'd use bring>brought>brought. The other 1% of the time ... for comic effect ... I might use brung or brang or brong, bringed, broughted ...
    I wouldn't call them exactly 'wrong' ... more 'not very correct'.
    I'm tending toward the position of AlonYo (post #32), though

    I actually find the use of "brang" to be quite pleasant. "Brung" sounds very strange to me, yet for some reason, when I hear "brang" I kind of enjoy it. I would like to start using it myself, at least in common speech. If it feels okay, then why not?
    Brang and brung have a nice ring (or rang or rung) to them:)
     

    emmalee

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, USA
    I use brought. But, my parents have used brang and brung on occasion. However, if I were to hear anyone else use these I would do a double-take.
    I like brought the best :)
     

    panjandrum

    Occasional Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    It seems timely to introduce a small "duty of care" point.

    As MrMagoo made clear in post #1, the conventional past tense and participle is brought.

    No doubt aware that brang and brung occur with varying popularity in various places and contexts, MrMagoo asked for views on such usage and such views have been honestly offered.

    None of this alters the fact that in a formal context, and in particular in an examination, it would be unwise to use brang or brung.
     
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