<bring> extra plutonium

VicNicSor

Banned
Russian
Doc is going to time-travel into the future. He's standing by his time-mashine, about to get in, when realizes something:
-- What am I thinking of? I almost forgot to bring extra plutonium. How did I ever expect to get back? One pellet one trip, I must be out of my mind.
Back to the Future, movie

The case with plutonium is, maybe, several meters away. The verb "bring" implies that he forgot to carry the pellet several meters from the case to the car. It sounds too literally. I'd expect it to be "I almost forgot to take extra plutonium.", which would indicate it was a thing that he almost forgot to take with him into the car for the travel. What do you think? Thank you.
 
  • JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    For me it would be bring. I take stuff when I go somewhere and bring it (back) when I come (home).
    I've just come over to the car and I forgot to bring the extra plutonium with me.
    When he is relating the story later he would say "I almost forgot to take it with me when I went (over to the car - or on my journey etc).

    If he were still standing by the plutonium he would say "I must remember to take some extra plutonium with me when I go (to the car or on the trip etc).
     
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    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Let me explain the thing that's confusing me a little more: "bring" means that the car (or even not the car but the place where he's standing -- outside the car) is the final destination of the pellet. While "take" implies that the final destination of the pellet is the future -- because it is the time when he is going to use that pellet to come back into his time. Now does that make more sense?:)
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    For me,
    Before the trip starts, outide the car: I almost forgot I need to take the extra when I go.
    Relating it later: I remembered to take the extra when I went.
    At the destination: I brought the extra with me to the car (or on the trip)
    Relating later: When I got there I was happy I had taken the extra with me.
    Relating later at the destination: When I got here I was happy I had brought the extra with me.

    I never say "I will bring it with me when I go" or "I will take it with me when I come" , but others are more flexible, especially if the conversation is not at the start point or destination:)
     
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    Oddmania

    Senior Member
    French
    Let me explain the thing that's confusing me a little more: "bring" means that the car (or even not the car but the place where he's standing -- outside the car) is the final destination of the pellet. While "take" implies that the final destination of the pellet is the future -- because it is the time when he is going to use that pellet to come back into his time. Now does that make more sense?:)
    My understanding of "bring" and "take" is the exact opposite (just like Julian explained in his post #3).
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    My understanding of "bring" and "take" is the exact opposite (just like Julian explained in his post #3).
    I don't take Julian's understanding in #3 as "the exact opposite" to mine. The only thing that is different is when he approaches the car -- he's "come over to the car", just like when you've "come home". When you come home, that's the place where you intended to go. While Doc's car is just a "transit point" between the case with plutonium and the future. That's the difference to me, the essential one.
    Before the trip starts, outide the car: I almost forgot I need to take the extra when I go.
    Relating it later: I remembered to take the extra when I went.
    At the destination: I brought the extra with me to the car.
    Relating later: When I got there I was happy I had taken the extra with me.
    Relating later at the destination: When I got here I was happy I had brought the extra with me.
    I entirely agree:) And the blue text is how I see the OP.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    I don't take Julian's understanding in #3 as "the exact opposite" to mine. The only thing that is different is when he approaches the car -- he's "come over to the car", just like when you've "come home". When you come home, that's the place where you intended to go. While Doc's car is just a "transit point" between the case with plutonium and the future. That's the difference to me, the essential one.

    I entirely agree:) And the blue text is how I see the OP.
    Did you notice the "I need to" in the blue text - the going, and therefore the taking, are still in the future but, more importantly, happen at the same time - go requires take.
     

    Oddmania

    Senior Member
    French
    He takes some plutonium with him (in the car) in order to bring it to the future.
    "Bring" means that the car [...] is the final destination of the pellet.
    "Take" implies that the final destination of the pellet is the future.
    According to your logic, he should bring plutonium with him in order to take it to the future. I would personally say the opposite. That was my point.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    There's an old thread about bring/take and its use in Irish English.

    Bring/Take - Irish English

    It is interesting because it suggests a usage in Irish English which would be fine for some US speakers, but not for southern English speakers (of which I am one).

    That said, I tend to agree with Enquiring Mind. In this case both bring and take work for me.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    There's an old thread about bring/take and its use in Irish English.

    Bring/Take - Irish English

    It is interesting because it suggests a usage in Irish English which would be fine for some US speakers, but not for southern English speakers (of which I am one).

    That said, I tend to agree with Enquiring Mind. In this case both bring and take work for me.
    It is very common for AE speakers to use bring for both motions and not to use take.
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Thank you, everybody.
    Did you notice the "I need to" in the blue text - the going, and therefore the taking, are still in the future but, more importantly, happen at the same time - go requires take.
    But I think it doesn't make a difference:
    "I almost forgot to take extra plutonium." = "I almost forgot to put extra plutonium into the car." Note the word "almost", which indicates that the going and the taking are still in the future too.
    He takes some plutonium with him (in the car) in order to bring it to the future.

    According to your logic, he should bring plutonium with him in order to take it to the future. I would personally say the opposite. That was my point.
    No, what I meant is I would not mention the action of bringing the plutonium to the car at all in OP. I.e. I would not consider it relevant to the context...
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    For me (southern-English-speaker) it would have to be bring.


    Cross-posted.
    :thumbsup:
    (Surely we don't need a south/north division of BE?:))

    For me it's analagous to: We're driving along the road en route to the seaside and a child in the back seat says "I forgot to _____ my bucket and spade" - it has to be bring.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    It is very common for AE speakers to use bring for both motions and not to use take.
    I know. It always floors me, but then I remember my good friend from Derry who does exactly the same thing.
    :thumbsup:
    (Surely we don't need a south/north division of BE?:))
    I'm from London and both sound fine to me, as I said above. That is not however usually the case: I would normally distinguish between them but the sentence here is, to my mind, a little ambiguous, so I cannot say which I would use.:)
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    I only mentioned my southern origin because london calling had said something about southern English speakers earlier;).
    For me it's analagous to: We're driving along the road en route to the seaside and a child in the back seat says "I forgot to _____ my bucket and spade" - it has to be bring.
    I agree:).
     

    srk

    Senior Member
    English - US
    -- What am I thinking of? I almost forgot to bring extra plutonium.
    I understand this as "have the extra plutonium with me on the trip," not "transport the extra plutonium from where it sits to the car."
    Julian mentions this parenthetically:
    At the destination: I brought the extra with me to the car (or on the trip)
    I would only use "take" after the trip, when I was back home.
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Thank you, all!
    For me it's analagous to: We're driving along the road en route to the seaside and a child in the back seat says "I forgot to _____ my bucket and spade" - it has to be bring.
    Relating it later: I remembered to take the extra when I went.
    Sorry, but what's the difference between them?

    Julian mentions this parenthetically:
    Yes, but with the note "At the destination", while in the OP it's "at the start")
    I would only use "take" after the trip, when I was back home.
    That is, you disagree with this:
    Before the trip starts, outide the car: I almost forgot I need to take the extra when I go.
    Relating it later: I remembered to take the extra when I went.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Vic, it may help you to substitute "go while carrying" for take and "come while carrying" for bring in all these examples to get the principle Loob and I (and many others) follow..

    If I am at position A and I am gong to B, I will take something to B. If I am at location B, I will say "I need you to bring it from A to me at B". It's not the timing, it's the direction of motion, relative to where the statement is made - before the trip or at the destination...
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Vic, it may help you to substitute "go while carrying" for take and "come while carrying" for bring in all these examples to get the principle Loob and I (and many others) follow..

    If I am at position A and I am gong to B, I will take something to B. If I am at location B, I will say "I need you to bring it from A to me at B". It's not the timing, it's the direction of motion, relative to where the statement is made - before the trip or at the destination...
    But that's who I understand it too. Doc is at position A (1985) and is about to go to position B (2010), so he "will take something to B". He almost forgot to take it to B, so now he will not forget to take it to B:confused:
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    No, he's forgotten to bring it to A, where he is now - which means that he can't take it to B:).

    ........
    Sorry - he's almost forgotten....
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    No, he's forgotten to bring it to A
    That's what I meant in the OP too:):
    The case with plutonium is, maybe, several meters away. The verb "bring" implies that he forgot to carry the pellet several meters from the case to the car. It sounds too literally.
    By "sounds too literally" I implied that highlighting the fact of bringing it to A sounds odd to me:)
    Sorry - he's almost forgotten....
    That reminds me about an important point:idea: The "almost" makes, well, if not all, but part of the difference. He did forget to bring it to the car. With no "almost". Because he literally didn't bring it to the car. But! He almost forgot to take it with him on the car. Because there's still a chance to take it on the car. If he already was in the car, travelling, or at the destination, he would say "I forgot to take it." (again, no "almost")
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    T
    If he already was in the car, travelling, or at the destination, he would say "I forgot to take it." (again, no "almost")
    :cross:
    He would say, like child who forgot her bucket and spade, "I forgot to bring it (with me)". When he got back home after the trip he would say "I forgot to take it with me (when I went)".
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Doc is going to time-travel into the future. He's standing by his time-mashine, about to get in, when realizes something:
    -- What am I thinking of? I almost forgot to bring extra plutonium. How did I ever expect to get back? One pellet one trip, I must be out of my mind.
    Let's do a parallel (the distance from the plutonium to the car is not relevant)

    I'm going on a trip to London. I've left home (cf. the plutonium) with a list of the things I need to take with me on my trip when I go. One of the items on that list of things to take is my passport. I now am at the airport (cf. the time machine) and I realize I don't have my passport: I forgot to bring it with me when I came to the airport. If I don't have my passport with me now, I will be unable to take it with me when I go to London and they won't let me in/out of the country.
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    :cross:
    He would say, like child who forgot her bucket and spade, "I forgot to bring it (with me)". When he got back home after the trip he would say "I forgot to take it with me (when I went)".
    For me it's analagous to: We're driving along the road en route to the seaside and a child in the back seat says "I forgot to _____ my bucket and spade" - it has to be bring.
    A question: how could we talk about forgetting to bring something before we get to the destination? The action of "taking" -- yes, it has already taken place, so we can talk about forgetting to take anything once we've set off (note, in OP he almost forgot to take it, which makes it possible to talk about almost forgetting to take something even before setting off). But "bring", we can only talk about forgetting to bring something after we've reached the destination. Do you disagree?
    I'm going on a trip to London. I've left home (cf. the plutonium) with a list of the things I need to take with me on my trip when I go. One of the items on that list of things to take is my passport. I now am at the airport (cf. the time machine) and I realize I don't have my passport: I forgot to bring it with me when I came to the airport. If I don't have my passport with me now, I will be unable to take it with me when I go to London and they won't let me in/out of the country.
    Still, I'd use take:eek: The main reason is that the instance of forgetting only refers to (not) collecting/picking up the thing. You forgot to collect it when you were leaving home. Once you've left home, you can't "forget" to take/bring/etc it on your way. You can remember that you forgot to take it, so you say "Oh, I forgot to ..." (or "have forgotten")
    Another reason is that the airport is not the destination of your journey. You don't throw the passport away after you've used it at the airport. You may need the passport all the way on the journey. For that reason, I would not even talk about bringing the passport when I am in London. Compare, you've bought a souvenir for your aunt who lives in London; so now you are in London, and you tell her: "Oh sorry, I forgot to bring a souvenir I prepared for you."
    And I wouldn't divide the journey into "from home to the airport", then "from the airport to London"...
    What do you think?:)
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    I think you can do what you want for whatever reason you want. Don't mind me:(


    I leave the house and walk to the car. Once I get there I realize "I've just come out to the car and I didn't ____ my keys with me". Then I go back inside 30 seconds later and tell my wife "I just went out to the car and I forgot to ____ the keys with me". Hint, I don't use the same word for both spaces and I didn't even go on a journey in the car:) (What happens after you leave the airport or the time machine is not relevant to what was or was not forgotten before then, on the way there.)

    Perhaps even simpler. You and I have a bet and you win $10,000. We agree to meet at a cafe. I show up and then have to apologize because "I forgot to _____ it with me." :D
     
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    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    I think you can do what you want for whatever reason you want. Don't mind me:(
    At least, could you answer the first question in #28? About cases such as "If he already was in the car, travelling" and "driving along the road en route"...
    I leave the house and walk to the car. Once I get there I realize "I've just come out to the car and I didn't ____ my keys with me". Then I go back inside 30 seconds later and tell my wife "I just went out to the car and I forgot to ____ the keys with me". Hint, I don't use the same word for both spaces and I didn't even go on a journey in the car:) (What happens after you leave the airport or the time machine is not relevant to what was or was not forgotten before then, on the way there.)
    To me, it depends on two points:
    1. Why do you walk to the car? To just sit in there, without driving anywhere, and then walk back into the house? Or are you going to drive?
    2. Now with "didn't_____ my keys with me" instead of "forgot to____my keys with me", "bring" is more likely to me.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    At least, could you answer the first question in #28? About cases such as "If he already was in the car, travelling" and "driving along the road en route"...me.
    I thought I aready had - he is referring to bringing to the car. He has just come to the car but didn't bring the plutonium.
    Edit: He might say to himself "I just forgot to bring the plutonium out to the car" and then say to someone else "I'm taking the putonium with me when I go." Does that help?
    To me, it depends on two points:
    1. Why do you walk to the car? To just sit in there, without driving anywhere, and then walk back into the house? Or are you going to drive?
    2. Now with "didn't_____ my keys with me" instead of "forgot to____my keys with me", "bring" is more likely to me.
    1. Totally irrelevant. I will always use brought if I'm saying I've come, and taken if I'm saying I went. SImple.
    2. Same - makes no difference. If I go, I take (or forget to take) and if I come, I bring (or forget to bring). What my intentions are afterwards are completely and totally 100% irrelevant.
    If you want to make those factors play a role in which word to use, you will completely lose many people about whether you are coming or going (or came or went). You can, of course, use "bring" all the time, like many AE speakers do, and then we'll only be confused half the time:D

    Here is a composite thread (there are many others) on bring & take
     
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