Bulgarian: usage of the definite article on long possessive pronouns

Evo900

Member
French
I'm about confused about whether I should or shouldn't use a definite article on long possessive pronouns.

Here are two examples:

Ще говоря с неговия братовчед
Ще говоря с негов братовчед

Не съм неговия братовчед
Не съм негов братовчед

It seems like there is something that makes it ok to use the non-definite form in the second sentence but not in the first one. I'm not sure.

Thanks!
 
  • miasam

    Member
    serbian - serbia
    Ще говоря с неговия братовчед - I'll talk to his cousin - I have a specific person in mind, the cousin.
    Ще говоря с негов братовчед - I'll talk to a cousin of his/to one of his cousins. - sounds like 1. I don't exactly know the cousin or my interlocutor doesn't, or 2. It is not certain to which one of the cousins I'll talk (presuming the person has more than one). In the first case you may also say "с един негов братовчед" and in the second "с някой негов братовчед".

    Не съм неговия братовчед - I'm not his cousin - The person has a cousin, but I am not that cousin.
    Не съм негов братовчед - I'm not a cousin of his - He may have as many cousins as he wants or have no cousins at all; either way I am not related to him in that way.

    I hope this clears things up.
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Ще говоря с неговия братовчед - I'll talk to his cousin - I have a specific person in mind, the cousin.
    Ще говоря с негов братовчед - I'll talk to a cousin of his/to one of his cousins. - sounds like 1. I don't exactly know the cousin or my interlocutor doesn't, or 2. It is not certain to which one of the cousins I'll talk (presuming the person has more than one). In the first case you may also say "с един негов братовчед" and in the second "с някой негов братовчед".

    Не съм неговия братовчед - I'm not his cousin - The person has a cousin, but I am not that cousin.
    Не съм негов братовчед - I'm not a cousin of his - He may have as many cousins as he wants or have no cousins at all; either way I am not related to him in that way.

    I hope this clears things up.

    Wouldn't it be "Не съм неговият братовчед"?
     

    Evo900

    Member
    French
    Thanks miasam, that's extremely clear! :)

    It is ниговия, and not неговият, because "his cousin" is the object of the sentence, not the subject (the "-ят" definite article is used for the subject, "-я" is used for the object).
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Hm, as far as I can see it is indeed the object in the sentence "Ще говоря с неговия братовчед", but not in "Не съм неговия(т) братовчед" where it is the predicate, so it should have the subject ending in my opinion.
     

    marco_2

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Well, I am the subject of this sentence, not the cousin, so according to the rules "(Аз) Не съм неговия братовчед"

    P.S. Of course in very colloquial speech this rule isn't obeyed - I once saw a note: Магазина не работи.
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Well, I am the subject of this sentence, not the cousin, so according to the rules "(Аз) Не съм неговия братовчед"

    P.S. Of course in very colloquial speech this rule isn't obeyed - I once saw a note: Магазина не работи.

    Yeah, when I was learning Bulgarian my teacher told me that even in normal speech, people don't pronounce the -t at the end of the article, no matter where.

    However, according to Section 3 on this page, the correct form is "Не съм неговият братовчед".
     

    miasam

    Member
    serbian - serbia
    I once saw a note: Магазина не работи.
    Once? I see it all the time :D You know why? Because this is actually the correct natural form. I don't know why they still insist on this artificial -ат/-ят thing, it makes absolutely no sense and serves absolutely no purpose. It is not even applied in speech, as Panceltic noted. Moreover, if you look at a text from late 19th or early 20th century you will see the exact opposite rule in action - the object carries the -t and not the subject. Actually even today many (if not most) people make the same "mistake" when they write without thinking of the gramar rules, because it feels more natural. So, there's no need to obsess about it, a sentence would make perfect sense without the -t ending.
     

    DarkChild

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian
    Hm, as far as I can see it is indeed the object in the sentence "Ще говоря с неговия братовчед", but not in "Не съм неговия(т) братовчед" where it is the predicate, so it should have the subject ending in my opinion.

    Just say Не съм му братовчед and don't stress over it :D

    Of course, in speech it makes no difference.
     

    Christo Tamarin

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian
    About the difference неговият/неговия.

    This is an affair totally internal to the Bulgarian state and to the Bulgarian ministry of education in particular.
    There is no difference in the natural Bulgarian language.
    This topic is not to be applied outside Bulgaria or in the internet as internet is outside Bulgaria.

    And yes, according the requirements of the Bulgarian ministry of education, it is "Не съм неговият братовчед".

    In internet writing, I always use the full form: "Говорих с неговият братовчед".

    In my speech, I would usually say: "Говорих с неговия братовчед", "Не съм неговия братовчед".
     
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