1. charlie2 Senior Member

    Bonjour,

    Le contexte:
    "Meetings can easily degenerate into..., with occasional allegedly informal exchange of views that turn easily into cafe du commerce, a slightly superior cab driver's world view..."

    Mes questions:
    (1) Qu'est-ce que l'expression au-dessus signifie dans ce contexte?
    (2) Comment cela se traduit en anglais?
    (3) Il y a quelqu'un qui puisse la mettre dans une autre phrase?

    Merci.
     
  2. french4beth

    french4beth Senior Member

    Connecticut
    US-English
    Salut Charlie2,
    Dans Harper Collins Robert:
    "café du commerce" - bar-room philosophizing, bar-room politics
    Je crois que l'auteur voulait dire qu'il y plusieurs personnes dans ces rendez-vous qui parlent de n'importe quoi et qui ne sont pas des experts, donc ils ne savent pas de quoi ils parlent.
    Ce ne sont que des propos du café du Commerce (Harper Collins Robert)
     
  3. 1) In all the cafes of France (and perhaps in the whole world), the drinkers have all the solutions for a better world. A "Café du Commerce"'s conversation is a talking of little interest about high interest subject [edit: by non-expert people, as said french4beth], from "How to stop war in Iraq" to "How to manage the France's soccer team".
    Once upon a time, all French towns had a cafe called "Café du Commerce" near the famous "Place du Marché". Je plaisante à peine ;-)

    2) Sorry, I don't know

    3) D'après les propos de café du commerce de ma concierge, pour arrêter les guerres il faudrait faire disparaître les militaires.
     
  4. geve

    geve Senior Member

    France, Paris
    France, French
    Oui, en français, ça veut bien dire ça ! C'est un peu comme "la philosophie de comptoir" = grosso modo, refaire le monde à coups de raisonnements superficiels

    Donc cette expression s'utilise en anglais ?
     
  5. JazzByChas

    JazzByChas Senior Member

    Houston, TX USA
    American English
    "la philosophie de comptoir" = "Armchair Philosopher/Philosophy"

     
  6. geve

    geve Senior Member

    France, Paris
    France, French
    from comptoir to armchair... the English is a lot classier ! :D

    Could "armchair philosophy" work to translate "café du commerce" in charlie2's sentence ?
    It's not exactly the same, but the expression is linked to the cultural background of the country so the translation cannot be litteral...
     
  7. panzemeyer

    panzemeyer Senior Member

    Paris
    France / French
    "Armchair philosophy" me fait plus penser à l'expression "philosophie de salon" qui existe aussi en français.

    "Philosophie de comptoir" est un encore peu plus péjoratif.
     
  8. JazzByChas

    JazzByChas Senior Member

    Houston, TX USA
    American English
    Comptoire = bar (as in the establishment), bar, or counter top.

    The idea is, that any philosophy discussed in such a setting, be it over beers/coffee, or whatever beverage conducive to “free-flowing” speech, should it concern commerce, world events, or even philosophy, is spoken by amateurs (not lovers of, but non-experts) in any subject.

     
  9. french4beth

    french4beth Senior Member

    Connecticut
    US-English
    Geve,
    I would agree with panzemeyer & jazzbychas :tick: - "armchair philosopher" is definitely more sophisticated, refined, elegant; in the above context, I believe that the conversations are simply people shooting off their mouths, as happens when vast quantities of alcohol are consumed; people talk for the sake of hearing their own voice, not because they have anything particularly interesting/witty/insightful to say... (not that there's anything wrong with that... ;)
    If you're sitting in a cab, chatting with the driver, you're probably just carrying on a conversation to pass the time.
     
  10. charlie2 Senior Member

    Merci pour vos réponses.:)
    Peut-être que je dois ajouter un peu plus de contexte afin d'obtenir la meilleure traduction en anglais.
    L'auteur parlait des conférences de l'Union Européenne.
     
  11. panzemeyer

    panzemeyer Senior Member

    Paris
    France / French
    Tout à fait. Le contexte (salon / bar) n'est pas du tout innocent. ;) Le salon (dans "philosophie de salon") renvoie à des personnes cultivées mais désoeuvrées, parlant beaucoup mais agissant peu. Le bar ("philosophie de comptoir") renvoie à des personnes qui ont trop bu et ne savent plus ce qu'elles disent.
     
  12. geve

    geve Senior Member

    France, Paris
    France, French
    ok, je vois bien la nuance maintenant. Merci ! :)

    Y a-t-il un autre mot qui pourrait convenir en anglais pour "café du commerce" ou "philosophie de comptoir" ? Est-ce que "bar-room politics" du Harper Collins cité par french4beth pourrait convenir ?
     
  13. JazzByChas

    JazzByChas Senior Member

    Houston, TX USA
    American English
    Oui, le "bar-room" politics conviendra assez bien, en cette instance...
    Je suis attiré d’employer “café klatch” mais ça s’agis mieux pour des femmes qui aiment bavarder:D


     
  14. Amityville

    Amityville Senior Member

    France
    English UK
    geve, for 'refaire le monde' we have 'putting/setting the world to rights', thankyou for teaching me the french version.
    Bar-room philosophy works as well as bar-room politics. After all they don't just discuss the war in Iraq, it's the meaning of life and everything.
     
  15. geve

    geve Senior Member

    France, Paris
    France, French
    and thank you for teaching me the English one !

    In the case of charlie2's sentence, it would probably be "bar-room politics"... but maybe these European delegates don't talk only about politics !

    "café klatch" ??
     
  16. Curmud Senior Member

    Louisiana
    U S A American
    "Round Table Discussions" is sometimes used for these solvers of the world's problems over coffee. Of course, they are all philosophers in their own mind.
     

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