cafe <that> my wife and I often go to

scentKT

New Member
Korean
Hi all, great to and eager to meet an end to my trouble
I had some trouble with the latest Qs I'd made for my S's mid-term test
so my wife posted a thread for me yesterday
which goes like below...



"Hello all,
I desperately need your help.
Please see below.

There's a cafe around the corner that my wife and I often go to get fresh juice.

This sentence is from the English grammar test at high school.
The question is if the usage of "that" is correct, and the answer is wrong.
The correct sentence should be:

There's a cafe around the corner that my wife and I often go to to get fresh juice.
or
There's a cafe around the corner where my wife and I often go to get fresh juice.

The word "that" in the first sentence is a relative pronoun, so it needs a preposition.
Or a relative adverb can be used instead of the combination of a relative pronoun and a preposition.

But the proplem is some people argue that the word "that" can be a relative adverb as well.
If so, the answer of the question should be changed to be right.
I tried to search the relevant information, but even native speakers seem to have different opinions.
What do you think of this issue? "



to be brief...
can "that" be used as 'relative adverb'???
can the sentence "There's a cafe around the corner that my wife and I often go to get fresh juice." possible???

I'm really looking forward to get some answers to get rid of the messy thoughts and troubles in my head T.T
Help me, it's urgent T.T
 
  • Wilma_Sweden

    Senior Member
    Swedish (Scania)
    can "that" be used as 'relative adverb'???
    can the sentence "There's a cafe around the corner that my wife and I often go to get fresh juice.:cross:" possible???
    I don't think it's helpful to think of 'that' as a 'relative adverb' - it is a relative pronoun in this context. 'Where' is also functioning as a relative pronoun.

    The problem is that 'go' either needs a preposition or an adverb - you are moving in a direction. That's why your sentence goes wrong without 'to to' - 'that' forces you to place the preposition 'to' in the last position, and then you have another 'to' that is an infinitive marker, meaning 'with the purpose of doing something/in order to do something'.
    There's a café [around the corner] that my wife and I often go to to get fresh juice.

    If you use 'where' instead of 'that', you have a 'directional' adverb that can replace the preposition 'to', at the same time functioning as a relative pronoun:
    There's a café [around the corner] where my wife and I often go to get fresh juice.

    A third possibility exists, which is unnecessarily complex in my opinion:
    There's a café [around the corner] to which my wife and I often go to get fresh juice.

    I would be interested to know which solution native English speakers prefer.
     
    Last edited:

    Hermione Golightly

    Senior Member
    British English
    There's a cafe my wife and I often go to, for fresh juice, is what I'd say, but I suppose 'that' or 'where' and 'to get' have to be included.
    I think 'There's a cafe where my wife and I often go, to get fresh juice' is the most elegant.
    I call 'where' a relative because it replaces 'to which'. There's also a potential problem with punctuation to represent the pause after 'go' in speech. I've put a comma in.
     

    Wilma_Sweden

    Senior Member
    Swedish (Scania)
    There's a cafe my wife and I often go to, for fresh juice, is what I'd say, but I suppose 'that' or 'where' and 'to get' have to be included.
    I think 'There's a cafe where my wife and I often go, to get fresh juice' is the most elegant.
    I call 'where' a relative because it replaces 'to which'. There's also a potential problem with punctuation to represent the pause after 'go' in speech. I've put a comma in.
    My confidence is restored - I thought of your solution with a reduced relative clause, but didn't present it because I wasn't 100% sure and because - as you also remarked - the exercise appeared to include a compulsory relative pronoun. Personally, I believe that any word that introduces a relative clause is a relative pronoun if it functions as such.
     

    Glenfarclas

    Senior Member
    English (American)
    I haven't seen anybody yet suggest:

    There's a cafe my wife and I often go to to get fresh juice,​

    but, although the repeated "to" looks a little unusual when written down, it would sound perfectly natural and unremarkable when spoken.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top