called no more

sonamgyaltsen

Senior Member
french
Bonjour à tous,

J'ai du mal à trouver une tournure française correcte pour la phrase suivante ...

The raft of Dharma is abandoned on the other shore, for here the names of samsara and nirvana are unknown, and the path called no more learning begins.

Mon essai le plus probant est celui-ci ...

Le radeau du Dharma est abandonné sur l’autre rive, parce qu’ici les noms de samsara et nirvana sont inconnus, et la voie appelée n’entame aucun apprentissage.

Merci de votre aide
SG
 
  • sonamgyaltsen

    Senior Member
    french
    Bonjour Ellea1,

    Effectivement ... étude, apprentissage

    en tout cas cela m'offre une confirmation

    merci à tous deux
    SG
     

    sonamgyaltsen

    Senior Member
    french
    Hello akaAJ,

    Dans le contexte "la voie sans apprentissage" me semble bien adapté. (par opposition à la voie où il est nécessaire d'étudier).

    Merci de votre aide
    SG
     

    ChameleonDave

    Member
    Standard English
    et la voie appelée n’entame aucun apprentissage.
    Quoi ? Cela n’a pas de sens.

    Il manque des guillemets dans le texte original.

    « The raft of Dharma is abandoned on the other shore, for here the names of samsara and nirvana are unknown, and the path called ‘no more learning’ begins. »

    « Le radeau du Dharma est abandonné sur l’autre rive, car ici l’on ignore les mots “samsara” et “nirvana”, et la voie qui s’appelle “[il n’y a] plus d’apprentissage” commence. »

    But that’s rather literal. Your final ‘voie sans apprentissage’ seems to get the drift in a way that is probably more natural in French.
     

    Ellea1

    Senior Member
    Southern French
    Hi,

    Thought of something else

    Le radeau du Dharma est abandonné sur l’autre rive car ici les noms de samsara et de nirvana sont inconnus de tous, et c'est là que commence la voie de la connaissance.
     
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    sonamgyaltsen

    Senior Member
    french
    c'est effectivement là que commence la voie de la connaissance (dans l'étude du dharma) ... mais votre première proposition était malgré tout meilleure, car c'est à ce point (dans le contexte) qu'il n'est plus nécessaire d'étudier.
    Je suis satisfait par le premier jet proposé.
    Encore merci à tous.
    SG
     

    akaAJ

    Senior Member
    American English, Yiddish
    Not being adept at Buddhism, I will defer to those who are. I agree with sonamgyaltsen that the most likely meaning of "the path called `no more learning' " is "the path where no additional study is required", although one literal meaning is "the path where no additional study will occur" (which is what I was driving at in #8), or "the path where no further additions to knowledge will occur" or "no further additions to knowledge will be sought" . To repeat, sticking only to literal meanings of "of no more learning", it depends on whether "learning" is interpreted as the present participle of "to learn", in which case the phrase means "no more knowledge will be sought" (no attempt to learn will occur) or a gerund (see "learned man"), that is, "learning" = knowledge itself, implying "knowledge ceases to exist". I get the impression that the ambiguity may be deliberate, in which case it must be preserved in the translation, but in any case most of the suggestions above make perhaps unwarranted assumptions about the phrase (you already possess all the knowledge/wisdom that is required, and so (a) you have no further need to study/learn or (b) no additional knowledge is required. If the phrase were "of `no more time' " it could be interpreted as either "time do do anything has run out -- you have no more of it" or "time has ceased to exist".
     
    Last edited:

    sonamgyaltsen

    Senior Member
    french
    akaAJ,

    Dans le contexte bouddhiste, et que commence la voie sans étude est approprié, parce que après l'évènement dont il est question (la réalisation de notre nature profonde), plus aucun apprentissage n'est nécessaire, on a basculé de la pensée discursive à la pensée spontanément présente ...

    merci encore
    SG
     
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