Calling a supermarket a grocer's (shop) or grocery in BrE [+greengrocer]

meijin

meijin

Senior Member
Tokyo
Japanese
Hi, just like it is normal in AmE to call a supermarket a "grocery store" (meaning a store that sells mainly food), is it normal in BrE to call a supermarket a "grocer's (shop)" or "grocery"? Or do you use the term only when the store is very small? I made up the following example conversation.

Father: Where are you going?
Son: A grocer's. / A grocery.
Father: Which one?
Son: Does it matter? It's Sainsbury's.
 
    • Grocery store and supermarket are exact synonyms in the U.S. It's just personal preference which one you say.
     
    kentix said:
    Grocery store and supermarket are exact synonyms in the U.S. It's just personal preference which one you say.
    Click to expand...
    I wouldn't go that far. They overlap, but "supermarket" evokes the image of a larger store than "grocery store".

    My little town has a grocery store which I knew as "the supermarket" when I was a boy and it was even smaller than it is now. My wife always complains when I call Tom's a "supermarket" because it's so small. She says "No, that's a grocery store."
     
    london calling said:
    Not at all.:) If I go to a supermarket I go to a supermarket. Sainsbury's is not a grocer's.:)
    Click to expand...
    Maybe it's normal for British newspapers to call supermarkets grocers? The following is from this BBC's article: Lidl tops Waitrose to become UK's seventh biggest grocer.

    Since the financial crisis in 2008, the four biggest grocers Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons have faced increasing pressure from luxury supermarket brands like Waitrose, as well as German discount chains like Aldi and Lidl.

     
    meijin said:
    Maybe it's normal for British newspapers to call supermarkets grocers? The following is from this BBC's article: Lidl tops Waitrose to become UK's seventh biggest grocer.

    Since the financial crisis in 2008, the four biggest grocers Tesco, Sainsbury's, Asda and Morrisons have faced increasing pressure from luxury supermarket brands like Waitrose, as well as German discount chains like Aldi and Lidl.
    Click to expand...

    That’s an interesting use, quite specific to comparing the market leaders in the supermarket industry.
    They probably use grocer because it’s shorter than any alternative way if grouping these businesses.


    In daily life I never hear grocer’s or grocery as a type of shop. We either go the supermarkt (more usually named as Tescos etc) or just « the shop ».

    I have heard things like “ we need some groceries” but equally we can say “we need some shopping” and in my house that would mean something for meals, etc.
     
    suzi br said:
    In daily life I never hear grocer’s grocery as a type of shop. We either go the supermarket or just « the shop ».
    Click to expand...
    Do you not have shops in your area that are smaller than supermarkets but larger than "the shops" (I think these are corner shops, or convenience stores) that mainly sell food and drinks (e.g. fruit and veg, meat, dairy products, tinned food, non-alcoholic drinks)? Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really super? (Maybe some people call them minimarkets?)
     
    meijin said:
    Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really super? (Maybe some people call them minimarkets?)
    Click to expand...
    I certainly don't.:) I'd just call it a local shop or, if you pushed me to be specific, I'd call it a grocer's. The one near my parents' home in London sells newspapers as well and so is known as the newsagent's.

    Oddly enough, 'minimarket' is a term I use when speaking Italian, never when speaking English.
     
    meijin said:
    (Maybe some people call them minimarkets?)
    Click to expand...
    I call them "the shop" if it is local; - "I'm going to the shop - do you want anything?"
    A convenience store (somewhat formal) or mini-supermarket as a generality, "My friend owned a convenience store/mini-supermarket in Scotland."
    by (i) their franchise name (strangely with the definite article.) - "I'm going to the Spar - do you want anything?"
    or (ii) the owner's name - "I'm going to Rajesh's - do you want anything?"
    or (iii) a locative - - "I'm going to the top/bottom/<insert name of district> shop - do you want anything?"
    to distinguish one local shop from another.
     
    In AmE, I think convenience stores and grocery stores are different. Grocery stores are bigger than convenience stores, and big grocery stores are called supermarkets, or just grocery stores.

    In Japan, we have these small grocery stores as well and they sell mainly fresh produce, meat, fish, dairy products, tinned food, bread, beverages, etc., and these are usually not chain stores. We never call them convenience stores. Examples of convenience stores are Seven Eleven, Lawson, Familymart, etc.

    In Britain, it seems supermarkets are too big to be called "grocer's (shops)" or "groceries", corner shops or convenience stores don't sell enough food to be called so. If a British speaker said, for example,     "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", does it mean the same as "I work part time at a small grocery store" in AmE?
     
    meijin said:
    In Britain, it seems supermarkets are too big to be called "grocer's (shops)" or "groceries",
    Click to expand...
    No, the reason is that supermarkets sell everything from food to electronic goods - they have a grocery section, a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, a clothes section, etc., etc. Grocery is restrictive.

    Grocers and groceries do exit as separate occupations and shops, but in small numbers. They sell fruit and vegetables and dry goods. So if someone said to me "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", I would understand that he worked in such a shop.
     
    PaulQ said:
    No, the reason is that supermarkets sell everything from food to electronic goods - they have a grocery section, a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, a clothes section, etc., etc. Grocery is restrictive.
    Click to expand...
    Interesting. If I'm not mistaken, these stores, if really big, are called "superstores", "supercenters", or "hypermarkets" in the US (I think "hypermarkets" are less common in the US than in Europe). And I think grocery is not restrictive in the US. I think large "grocery stores" in the US also have a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, etc.

    PaulQ said:
    Grocers and groceries do exit as separate occupations and shops, but in small numbers. They sell fruit and vegetables and dry goods. So if someone said to me "I work part time at a grocer's (or grocery)", I would understand that he worked in such a shop.
    Click to expand...
    I see. Good to know.


     
    meijin said:
    I think large "grocery stores" in the US also have a butcher's section, a fishmonger, a bakery, etc.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, it wouldn't be my idea of a grocery store without that. (Except we don't have fishmongers. The meat department handles meat and fish.)

    Here's a department list from Kroger:
    Meat & Seafood
    Grocery
    Produce
    Natural & Organic
    Deli
    Bakery
    Adult Beverage
    Cleaning and Household Essentials
    Health
    Beauty & Personal Care
    Floral
    Pet Care

    And just about every regular Kroger will have a pharmacy, too. (There are some smaller stores that don't.)

    Not all of the above are necessarily physically separate departments. The pet stuff is just in the normal aisles, for instance. Some of those are more "shopping categories" for their online business where you order and come pick it up. I was a bit surprised not to see dairy listed also.
     
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    kentix said:
    Here's a department list from Kroger:
    Meat & Seafood
    Grocery
    Produce
    Natural & Organic
    Deli
    Bakery
    Adult Beverage
    Cleaning and Household Essentials
    Health
    Beauty & Personal Care
    Floral
    Pet Care
    Click to expand...
    Thanks Kentix. Looking at the list, I had to wonder what the word "grocery" exactly means. I looked it up in the WR dictionary, but it didn't really help.
    The following is from Wikitionary, but the definition is pretty ambiguous.

    Noun
    grocery (plural groceries)
    1. (usually groceries) retail foodstuffs and other household supplies.
     
    I'm guessing that covers all the canned goods, breakfast cereals, cookies, rice and pasta, soft drinks, snacks, potato chips, boxed goods, etc. - basically anything that doesn't spoil - like meat and produce - and so doesn't need special handling. It just goes on the shelves.
     
    OK, so even though groceries are only a small part of the merchandise sold there, it's natural in AmE to call the entire store a grocery store. And if it's huge and sells home electronics, clothes, etc., you wouldn't call it a grocery store or supermarket, and instead call it a superstore/supercenter or call it by the name of the store. Am I right?
     
    Yes.

    But part of it is historical, too. Kroger has been a grocery store for decades. Lately, some of their stores have gotten bigger and they sell more stuff - like lawn furniture, small electronics and whatever. But they are still a grocery store because that's still their primary business, the stores are still organized like grocery stores (the way the aisles and departments and checkout lines are laid out), and that's how people think of them.

    Walmart was a general goods store for decades. It didn't sell groceries. Lately (well, for the last several decades), they have added grocery departments but they aren't a grocery store. They are laid out like a general goods store and have all the departments a general goods store has (electronics, clothing, sports and outdoor equipment (including hunting-related goods in some areas), household goods, a pharmacy, a jewelry department, an automotive section, a pet section, etc.) They just decided to add groceries as another way to make money. But they aren't a grocery store or a supermarket in the traditional meaning.

    You could say the two types of stores are converging (to some extent) but they are still noticeably different. They doubled the size of our Kroger but it still doesn't look or feel anything like a WalMart.

    OK, so even though groceries are only a small part of the merchandise sold there

    In the sense of the standard phrase I need to go grocery shopping, groceries covers anything you eat (in my mind) including the meat and fish and fruit and baked goods and everything else. So I wouldn't say it's a small part. It's their main business.

    Here's a typical grocery store layout:
    Grocery Store Aisles Map Google Search Storage Pinterest Storage Cool Ideas 6149 | thehappyhypocrite.org
    Almost everything is in long, parallel aisles

    Here's a typical (newer) WalMart layout (click on the picture):
    Weblinksnewsletter: Severn Maryland WalMart Opens - Well Received!
    Things are divided up into rectangular, thematic sections by aisles
     
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    To me a grocery store is a small store that sells a restricted amount of food and other household products, essentials you might need when the larger supermarkets are closed.

    A minimart is a small supermarket and usually has a turnstile to get in and a checkout counter (or more) where you pay.

    A supermarket is a much larger version of the minimart and usually sells a limited range of clothing items and other stuff you don’t get there or at the grocery store.
     
    kentix said:
    In the sense of the standard phrase I need to go grocery shopping, groceries covers anything you eat (in my mind) including the meat and fish and fruit and baked goods and everything else. So I wouldn't say it's a small part. It's their main business.
    Click to expand...
    You're right. In that sense, it's their main business. Thanks a lot for all the explanations and the pictures (now I get the picture :)).

    You little ripper! said:
    To me a grocery store is a small store that sells a restricted amount of food and other household products, essentials you might need when the larger supermarkets are closed.
    Click to expand...
    So "grocery store" in Australia is similar to (or the same as) "grocer's (shop)" in the UK, I suppose.

    You little ripper! said:
    A minimart is a small supermarket and usually has a turnstile to get in and a checkout counter (or more) where you pay.

    A supermarket is a much larger version of the minimart and usually sells a limited range of clothing items and other stuff you don’t get there or at the grocery store.
    Click to expand...
    Do people in Australia actually say, for example, "I'm going to a minimart", "I work at a minimart", etc. in daily speech?
     
    meijin said:
    So "grocery store" in Australia is similar to (or the same as) "grocer's (shop)" in the UK, I suppose. :thumbsup:


    Do people in Australia actually say, for example, "I'm going to a minimart", "I work at a minimart", etc. in daily speech?
    Click to expand...
    I’m going to the minimart/I work at a minimart wouldn’t be that common, but only because there aren’t that many of them here. I’ve seen and been to a few in Sydney, but I haven’t seen any in Perth. Most people go to a larger supermarket because they’re cheaper.
     
    Minimart is sometimes used here, but there really aren't so many of them. We might use 'convenience store'. When I lived in the UK, I don't recall anyone talking about going to the grocer's. It was always just the shop, or the corner shop or possibly the newsagent's. We used to go to the greengrocer's though (which sold fruit and vegetables only).
     
    meijin said:
    Do you not have shops in your area that are smaller than supermarkets but larger than "the shops" (I think these are corner shops, or convenience stores) that mainly sell food and drinks (e.g. fruit and veg, meat, dairy products, tinned food, non-alcoholic drinks)? Do you call them supermarkets even though they aren't really super? (Maybe some people call them minimarkets?)
    Click to expand...

    We have lots of different sized shops, yes. In the trade these might have different names which might be used in legal documents or journalism, or even written on the store front. BUT everyday people don’t use terms like convenience store or minimart in everyday conversation in the UK. Corner shop is the exception- especially if people are having a conversation about something other than actually using the shop (e.g. my grandparents used to own a corner shop). Culturally “corner shops” have a place in British life. Even so, when I am popping out for groceries I never use the word grocer/ groceries or any of the synonyms you suggest. I go to Tescos or I go to the shop. It’s about local habits and local geography. Everyone knows what and where “the shop” is.

    Another fascinating revelation about US/UK differences. I didn’t know they use grocer so frequently.

    Plus an interesting reflection on context. Yes, we have all theses synonyms or distinctions which do have some uses, but they’re only used in a narrow set of circumstances.
     
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    Thank you all very much for all these explanations which were very helpful. I learned a great deal in this thread.
     
    Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?

    1632297695064.png
     
    heypresto said:
    Why would we go into a DIY shop
    Click to expand...
    I couldn't help remembering your reply below from use of "store" (other than department store) in BE.
    Isn't "DIY store" more appropriate if it's a large shop that happens to have a grocery section?

    heypresto said:
    We have a small local shop that sells a lot of what could be called DIY stuff. Being a very small family business, I suppose I could call it a DIY shop. But I tend to call it a hardware shop (or store).

    A DIY store, for me, is a much larger place:

    homebase-wesfarmers-store-closure.jpg


    Some places call themselves DIY centres:

    CDC_Store_Front_v3.jpg
    Click to expand...
     
    zaffy said:
    Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?
    Click to expand...
    If he asked that particular question of someone under 20, they might reply What's 'grocery'? It sounds gross.
    If of someone aged 20-30: What ... you mean, like, food?
    If of someone aged 30+: We don't have one: this is Homebase/B&Q [etc.] ~ try Sainsburys next door.
     
    zaffy said:
    Being hungry, an American entered kind of a DIY store, hoping he could buy some food there. He asked his companion "Where is the grocery section?" Would a BE speaker ask the same question?

    View attachment 62146
    Click to expand...
    I don't think a BE speaker would think of asking the question. He might ask "D'you sell sandwiches?": some non-food shops do sell pre-packed sandwiches and other 'snack foods' as a sideline.
     
    Although "grocery/groceries" is part of my everyday vocabulary, the "grocer's (shop)" has not been since my childhood. Even then, it had its name: Home and Colonial, Lipton's, Mr Morgan's corner shop...

    This still maintains. In France I go to the supermarket (Super U, Géant...) to buy the week's supplies which are groceries as defined in #17:
    meijin said:
    ... retail foodstuffs and other household supplies.
    Click to expand...
    So why couldn't I call that supermarket a grocer's, like the Americans do? Because at least a third of its floor area is taken up with books, stationery, gardening supplies, hardware, flowers, furnishings, shoes and clothing, none of which count as grocery. And even among the foodstuffs, fruit and vegetables are to my mind greengrocery rather than grocery. About frozen food I'm undecided; I've never thought of it as "frozen grocery".
     
    heypresto said:
    Why would we go into a DIY shop looking for something to eat?
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    Well, he was in the middle of nowhere. He planned to get some fastfood at a petrol station but it happened to be closed. They came across that store and thought there would be a fast food section there, which is pretty common, at least here in Poland.

    Do you have OBI DIY sores in the UK? Those are huge DIY shops and they often have a biscuit section shown here:
    1632303137988.png




    In fact, those guys did find what they called a grocery section.
    1632303261228.png
     
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    zaffy said:
    Well, he was in the middle of nowhere. He planned to get some fastfood at a petrol station but it happened to be closed. They came across that store and thought there would be a fast food section there, which is pretty common, at least here in Poland.
    Click to expand...
    Ah, now we have some context.

    No, I wouldn't say "Where is the grocery section?"
     
    heypresto said:
    No, I wouldn't say "Where is the grocery section?"
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    natkretep said:
    Wouldn't it have been easier to ask, 'Do you sell any food?'
    Click to expand...
    OK, I see BE wouldn't ask that question, but say we have a huge petrol station, where there are different sections. Here, for example, we have an oil and car parts section and a paper and magazine section. Say, there is another section with food. What would you call it? I guess AE would call it a "grocery section".

    1632304115444.png
     
    zaffy said:
    OK, I see BE wouldn't ask that question, but say we have a huge petrol station, where there are different sections. Here, for example, we have an oil and car parts section and a paper and magazine section. Say, there is another section with food. What would you call it? I guess AE would call it a "grocery section".

    View attachment 62162
    Click to expand...
    I don't think I've ever been in a petrol station where it wasn't obvious where it was, but if I needed to ask, I'd probably say "D'you sell sandwiches/milk/juice... "or whatever I needed to buy. I would definitely not use the word "grocery".
     
    I came across this example in a Polish-English dictionary. So, is that AE? Could a BE say that?

    Can you get some groceries tomorrow, on your way home?

    Well, looking at the Longman definition of "groceries", it is used in BE too. Is it?
    1632305154316.png
     
    Keith Bradford said:
    Although "grocery/groceries" is part of my everyday vocabulary
    Click to expand...
    Do you mean you actually use it every day, Keith, or that you could/would use it every day if required?

    I can't remember the last time I used grocery/groceries ~ in speech or writing? I'd call it passive vocabulary.
     
    zaffy said:
    I came across this example in a Polish-English dictionary. So, is that AE? Could a BE say that?

    Can you get some groceries tomorrow, on your way home?

    Well, looking at the Longman definition of "groceries", it is used in BE too. Is it?
    View attachment 62164
    Click to expand...
    The word obviously still exists in BE, and most BE speakers would know what it meant, but the point is that in most ordinary contexts nowadays we would probably call them something else.
     
    And in business/formal context, "groceries" is fine in BE, right?
    However, I came across this and wonder why "groceries and food" was used, as, I believe, "food" is included in "groceries", isn't it?
    1632305958488.png
     
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    So BE speakers don't do the shopping at the grocer's but they do at the greengrocer's, right?
     
    Last edited:
    'Groceries' doesn't mean something to eat straightaway!
    I get a weekly home delivery of household items, fresh foodstuffs, groceries such as flour, butter, cereal, eggs, swiss black cherry jam, and stuff from the food cupboardmost of which keeps for some time.
    Many general type shops, or even specialist stores like Boots the pharmacy chain, sell foods for a light lunch, kept in fridges for self service. There's a store near u called Wilkersons that sells all sorts like Woolworths did, including tools paint and gardening stuff. The big DIY B&Q, has a very small cafe. Only a Martian would go there and ask for 'groceries'.
     
    There are some places and some people who do shop at specialist shops. The vast majority shop at supermarkets. I've not heard the terms 'grocer's' or 'greengrocer's' for years.
    The nearest to that are the street stalls selling only fruit and veg.
     
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