Carnaval is a party held .... <with> the biggest party

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Kazuko

Member
Japanese
Carnaval is an annual party held in many Brazilian cities, with the biggest party in Rio de Janeiro.

Is this "with" substituted with "including"?
 
  • dojibear

    Senior Member
    AE (US English)
    I do not think it means "including".

    A new clause starting with "with" is used to add more details about a subject, after some things were already said:

    Carnaval is a big party, with thousands of street dancers.
    Carnaval is an annual event, with fantastic costumes that take a year to create.
    Carnaval is loud, noisy and rowdy, with alcohol contributing to the mess.
    Carnaval is an annual street parade in a dozen countries, with the biggest and most famous parade in Rio de Janeiro.

    Logically "<comma> with " is equivalent to "<period> It has ".
     

    Kazuko

    Member
    Japanese
    I do not think it means "including".

    A new clause starting with "with" is used to add more details about a subject, after some things were already said:

    Carnaval is a big party, with thousands of street dancers.
    Carnaval is an annual event, with fantastic costumes that take a year to create.
    Carnaval is loud, noisy and rowdy, with alcohol contributing to the mess.
    Carnaval is an annual street parade in a dozen countries, with the biggest and most famous parade in Rio de Janeiro.

    Logically "<comma> with " is equivalent to "<period> It has ".

    Thank you for your reply.
    So, can it mean as "that is the biggest party in Rio de Janeiro"?
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    AE (US English)
    The term in English is "the Carnival". To give it its Portuguese name, one should, for example, write "the Carnaval" (in italics), as in Wikipedia.
    We have "carnivals" in the US (and UK, I am sure) but they are quite different from the annual "Carnaval" celebrated in Brazil and in many Caribbean countries.

    Carnaval is a big parade, held once a year on a certain day. Hundreds of (unpaid) groups enter the parade with floats, bands and costume dancers. They spend the entire year creating the floats and costumes. Carnaval is similar to the US's Rose Day parade, Thanksgiving parade and Mardi Gras parade, which we don't call "carnivals".

    It is not similar to US "carnivals", which are not parades. They are commercial businesses in a fixed place, similar to a circus. They have games of chance, rides, and food, all of which cost money to the visitors. The term "carnival" is also applied to temporary events by local clubs with similar activities (either free, or raising money for a charity).

    I would not use "carnival" to refer to Carnaval. I understand why some people might, because of the similarity in the names.
     
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