Carpe diem

talmid

Senior Member
UK English
G'Day!

Could some Member please help me ?

I'd like to know how to render "carpe diem",
in the literarily accepted form, please, in both

a. Ivrit

b. Russian

Thank you,спасибо & תודה
 
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  • origumi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Reasonable rendering to Hebrew is in Isaiah 22:13 אָכוֹל וְשָׁתוֹ כִּי מָחָר נָמוּת = akhol veshato ki makhar namut = Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die. It is echoed in 1 Corinthians 15:32 (Greek though).

    The literal translation חיה את הרגע = khaye et harega` = live the moment is not commonly used, http://www.babylon.com/definition/carpe_diem/Hebrew.
     

    talmid

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Sincere thanks to you both for this help
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Why not in all languages? I thought of these:

    Dutch: pluk de dag (plukken refers to fruits, berries, like picking)
    English: seize the day (which reminds me of grabbing and holding - or is this not the most common translation?)

    These translations seem quite different as for the kind of message they convey...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    But then would you agree that seizing and picking imply different meanings? And that in fact the meaning of carpere (pick, I believe) is strictly speaking better conveyed by 'pick' than 'seize'? How do you interpret the Latin saying/... ?
     
    In Greek:

    «άδραξε τη μέρα» [ˈaðɾakse ti ˈmeɾa] --> grasp the day (2nd p. sing. imperative).
    The v. is «αδράχνω» [aˈðɾaxno] --> to grasp < late Byz. v. «ἀδράχνω adrákhnō, a compound: copulative prefix «ἀ-» a- (PIE *sm-, cf Skt. सं- (sa-) => सनामन् (sánāman) --> similar (adj.); Lat. sim- => simplex (adj.)) + Byz. v. «δράχνω» drákhnō < Classical fem. noun «δραχμὴ» drākʰmḕ --> lit. grasp of the hand, handful, later, drachma (weight and coin), with obscure etymology.
     
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    rhitagawr

    Senior Member
    British English
    But then would you agree that seizing and picking imply different meanings? And that in fact the meaning of carpere (pick, I believe) is strictly speaking better conveyed by 'pick' than 'seize'? How do you interpret the Latin saying/... ?
    You translate the idea and not the word. Carpere may well mean pick, but seize has the idea of grasping something energetically before it's too late. Pick can mean something like choose/take. We need to meet. You can pick the day. Or it can mean something like pluck off a tree. We picked some apples from the orchard.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks for the hint regarding seizing: before it is too late... I had not thought of that as I had thought of picking.

    But I am not sure whether we need to translate (or render ?) the idea when we translate . I'd say that one has to interpret and understand the words before being able to render the idea, I think. And that is what I had been wondering about here: what is this carpere, and how can one 'render' it best?
     

    rhitagawr

    Senior Member
    British English
    I agree you can't translate a word you don't understand. Seize is as good as anything in English. You can seize an opportunity. He made me a generous offer and I seized it with both hands.
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Hungarian: Ragadd meg a napot! [megragad aangrijpen + nap dag]
    megragad [Eng.: seize] -- you can use use it in the collocation ragadd meg az alkalmat [Dutch: Grijp de gelegenhdeid aan]
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I thought I might just as well look at the original version (hope it is not too long) in Horatius' Odes, 1:11:
    Whether Jupiter has allotted you many more winters or this one,
    which even now wears out the Tyrrhenian sea on the opposing rocks, is the final one
    be wise, be truthful, strain the wine, and scale back your long hopes
    to a short period. While we speak, envious time will have {already} fled:
    seize the day, trusting as little as possible in the next day.[2]
    I noticed that carpere is often translated as picking (plucking), but seizing is also considered an alternative here... I think I better understand now, thanks to the context...
     
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    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I think Élj a mának! (literally: Live for the (to)day) is a better way of saying it in Hungarian because it expresses more faithfully what Horace meant...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Can anyone comment on the original form (in Latin)? Does carpere not refer to picking fruit mainly, which implies dependence, I'd say, whereas seizing seems to focus on taking everything one can...
     

    M Mira

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    ^You reach your hand out for the fruit, then you grab it and pull it off the tree, and take it with you, how is there any dependence?
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, the dependence is in the fact that I first need to bump into (ripe) fruit - or just find it!

    I think that is also the difference between hunting and agriculture... Seizing is like a different reflex: it is taking what you can get hold of.

    But maybe some people consider grabbing, seizing and picking as fairly related, just troponyms. I am inclined to see a different way of taking in picking (vs. the others) and to think it implies a different background not implied at all in the other two. Am I going too far as for this distinction?
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    Chinese translations for "Carpe Diem/Seize the day":
    1. Enjoy the moment:
    活在當下 Live in the moment
    及時行樂 Enjoy with time
    人生得意須盡歡,莫使金樽空對月 Enjoy yourself to the full when life goes your way and never let the bottom or your wineglass up to the (beautiful) moon.
    今朝有酒今朝醉,明日愁來明日愁 If I've got wine this morning, I'm drunk this morning; if worries come tomorrow, I'm worrying about it tomorrow.
    人生有九須當醉,一滴何曾到黃泉 If you got wine in life, drink it right away, (because) not a drop of it comes (with you) to the nether world.
    對酒當歌,人生幾何 With wine thy should sing, (because) how many moments like this do one have in life?
    2. Capture the opportunity
    把握當下 Seize the present
    今日事,今日畢 Today's affairs, finish them today!
    明日復明日,明日何其多 Tomorrow and tomorrow again; how many of tomorrow's there are?
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    To what extent can we say that the Chinese version (2.) and the Finnish version refer to Latin, do you think? I am just wondering because the whole point is that in the Epicurean Original 'carpe diem' one uses one particular verb and that is the one I am interested in. Not that I mind other variations, but I'd like to know if these are linked with the original...
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    I don't think so, 把握 actually means to grasp and hold and it is often collocated with 機會(opportunity), 時間(time), etc, or in 有把握 it means confidence. I believe it is an original Chinese expression.
     

    810senior

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I have seen the Japanese translation about this: その日を摘めsono hi wo tsukame, grab that day.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Nutzen... It sounds different again!

    Chinese/ Japanese: interesting to hear that it is not based on Epicurus, and that it really means 'grasp and hold', or 'grab' respectively. And of course that meaning is quite common: grabbing, seizing, in order not to miss... (It reminds me of the modern FOMO complex: the Fear Of Missing Out [on something], whereas the picking reminds me of the wealth offered by an orchard for free, and it is up to us to fully enjoy it, almost gratefully...)
     
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