carry / bear / tolerate / wear

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Dutch all four can be translated as 'dragen', though 'tolerate' is mostly translated as 'verdragen' (and 'dulden') .

    Can you translate carry, bear, tolerate and wear by means of one verb? If not, how many do you need?

    In French I think porter can be used in most cases, but supporter is the translation of verdragen.
    In German: tragen vs. ertragen (dulden ?), I think
  2. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    Slovene (and perhaps other Slavic languages) can use the verb stem n-s (nos-/naš-/nes-) for these meanings:

    nositi "carry", "wear (clothing)"
    prenašati / prenesti "tolerate (heat, pain, stress etc.)"
  3. arielipi Senior Member

    In hebrew you can do it with plausible to well fit results, though wear is better translated to the defined verbs and the same for tolerate.

    * wear in hebrew comes with a defined verb to each cloth type.
    * essentially tolerate and bear in hebrew are mostly combined, but there are specific for each.
  4. bibax Senior Member

    Czech (Prague)

    nésti = to carry, to bear (fruit);
    nositi (iterative) = to carry, to bear (arms), to wear (dress);
    snésti (perf.), snášeti (impf.) = to tolerate (a person), to withstand (strain), to bear (comparison);

    Root: nes-, nos-, -nás- (only with verbal prefix; *-nás-ja- gives -náš-e-);
  5. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    @bibax: interesting to learn that bearing can refer to withstanding and comparison. But could you illustrate those using a sentence? The point is: I cannot quite guess the precise meaning. I imagine lots of derivations (using prefixes and nouns) are based on those.

    @arielipi: what 'defined' verbs do you mean, Arielipi? And what is the root of your wear-verb? Do you use it in lots of combinations (nouns, derivations)?
  6. bibax Senior Member

    Czech (Prague)
    Her later work does not bear comparison with her earlier novels. = ... nesnese srovnání s ...;
    The material withstands high strain. = Materiál snese vysoké namáhání.
    I can't stand you. = Nesnáším tě (= nemohu tě snést).
  7. arielipi Senior Member

    Just to add, in hebrew the equivalent of bear/tolerate can also be meant for withstand.

    Defined verbs are the association of a root with the verb; As I said, to each cloth-type there's a specific defined verb (or root if you prefer)
    Since roots are the basis of everything, yes we use them in derivations, nouns, etc. (I just dont remember their terms in english)

    cloth type | wear | unwear
    general | לובשים lovshim | פושטים poshtim
    shirt חולצה khultza | " | "
    pants מכנסיים michnasayim | " | "
    dress שמלה simla | " | "
    socks גרביים garbayim | גורבים gorvim |
    belt חגורה khagura | חוגרים khogrim | מתירים matirim
    archaic use: | אוזרים ozrim | מפתחים mefatkhim
    bra חזיה khaziya | רוכסים rochsim, פורפים porfim | פותחים potkhim
    robe חלוק khaluk | עוטים otim | מסירים masirim
    hat כובע kova | חובשים khovshim | "
    mitten כסיות casiyot | עוטים otim | "
    gloves כפפות kfafot | לובשים עוטים lovshim otim | "
    buttons כפתורים kaftorim | מכפתרים רוכסים פורפים mekafterim rochsim porfim | פותחים potkhim
    zippers רוכסנים rochsanim | רוכסים | "
    shoes נעליים na'alayim, boots מגפיים magafayim, sandals סנדלים sandalim | נועלים no'alim | חולצים kholtzim
    uniform מדים madim (army) | עולים על go(ing) on | פושטים poshtim
    sleeves שרוולים sharvulim | | חופתים khoftim
    coat מעיל me'il | לובשים עוטים מתעטפים מתכרבלים lovshim otim mit'atfim mitkarbelim | פושטים מסירים poshtim masirim
    glasses משקפיים mishkafayim | מרכיבים markivim | מסירים masirim
    tie עניבה aniva | עונבים קושרים onvim koshrim | מתירים matirim
    scarf (scarf) צעיף tza'if | עוטים כורכים מתעטפים מתכסים otim korchim mit'atfim mitkasim | מסירים masirim
    scarf (veil) רעלה re'ala | עוטים otim | מסירים masirim
    jewelry תכשיטים tachshitim | עונדים עודים ondim odim | מסירים מורידים masirim moridim

    jewelry is the general word,
    ring טבעת taba'at
    bracelet צמיד tzamid
    necklace שרשרת sharsheret
    medallion, pendant תליון tilyon
    earring עגיל agil
    nose ring נזם nezem

    In hebrew we also use that.
    For cant stand we actually use bear.

    EDIT 2:
    and of course the translations themselves
    carry לשאת laset root נ-ש-א also לסחוב liskhov root ס-ח-ב
    bear לסבול lisbol root ס-ב-ל also לשאת
    tolerate לסבול " " " also להתיר lehatir root נ-ת-ר
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  8. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    In Greek:

    To carry, bear: «Φέρω» ['fero] < Classical Gr. v. «φέρω» pʰérō --> to carry, bear, endure, provide (PIE *bʰer-, to bear, carry cf Skt भरति (bhArati); Lat. ferre; OCS бьрати > Russ. брать (brat); Proto-Germanic *beraną > Ger. Burde, Eng. bear).

    To tolerate:
    1/ «Ανέχομαι» [a'nexome] < Classical Gr. v. «ἀνέχομαι» ănékʰŏmæ --> to hold up what is one's own, bear up, bear with patience < Compound, prefix and preposition «ἀνὰ» anằ --> up along (PIE *h₂en-, up, on high cf Av. ana & OP anā, upwards, along; Proto-Germanic *ana > Dt. aan, Ger. an, Eng. on) + medio-passive form of v. «ἔχω» ékʰō --> to have, possess (PIE *seǵʰ-, to possess, hold fast, retain, have cf Skt सहते (sAhate), to prevail, overpower, conquer).

    2/ «Μακροθυμώ» [makroθi'mo] < Hellenistic Gr. v. «μακροθυμέω/μακροθυμῶ» măkrŏtʰŭméō (uncontracted)/măkrŏtʰūmô (contracted) --> to bear patiently, forbear < Compound, combining form «μακρο-» makrŏ- of adj. «μακρός» makrós --> long, great, tall (PIE *meh₂ḱ-, long, thin, tall, great cf Lat. macer > It./Sp./Por. magro; Proto-Germanic *magras > Ger./Dt. mager, Eng. meager) + masc. noun «θῡμός» tʰūmós --> spirit, courage, anger (PIE *dʰuH-mo-, smoke cf Skt धूम (dhUma); Lat. fūmus > It./Por. fumo, Sp. humo, Fr. fumée, Eng. fume, Rom. fum; OCS дымъ).

    1 is what prevails in the vernacular, 2 is learned and considered bookish.

    To wear: «Φορώ» [fo'ro] and colloquially, «φοράω» [fo'ra.o] < Classical Gr. v. «φορέω/φορῶ» pʰŏréō (uncontracted)/pʰŏrô (contracted) --> to wear (clothes, armour); as a quality of mind/body, to possess, hold < from «φέρω» pʰérō (see above) with o-grade.
  9. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)

    I can think of two families of verbs that have the meaning of bearing/supporting/carrying/tolerating:
    - With the root - nes/nos- (to carry/to bear)
    - With the root –derj- (to hold/to bear)

    носить imperfective verb /nosit'/ - carry (around, repeatedly); wear (clothing)
    нести perfectuive verb /nesti/ - carry, bear

    выносить imperfective verb /vynosit/ - carry out; tolerate; support/tolerate; bear to term (pregnancy)
    вынести perfective verb /vynesti/-carry out, tolerate (once)

    держать imperfective verb /derjat’/ - hold; bear

    выдержать perfective verb /vyderjat’/ - bear; tolerate; be able to support (once)
    выдерживать imperfective verb /vyderjivat’/ - bear, support (repeatedly, constantly)
  10. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    I feel as though I've asked this before, but does Modern Greek still use different roots to express different tenses and aspects of "bear/carry" (cf. Ancient Greek phérō "I am carrying", oísō "I will carry", ḗnenkon "I carried")?
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  11. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Does that imply that the bear verbs are used in a fig. sense, mainly as tolerating? Does the vy- refer to out-/ ex- or under- ?
  12. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    both figurative (e.g. he couldn't bear keeping a secret and told everything) or literal (e.g. concrete slabs [are able to] to bear a structure).
    The prefix вы- has the meaning of "out/ex-".
  13. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I just wondered: do the /derjat/ verbs refer to standing? I suppose they don't, but I thought of I can't stand (and in Dutch uit-staan)
  14. bibax Senior Member

    Czech (Prague)
    держать (in Czech držeti) means to hold, to keep, to retain, ...

    In Czech we can also say Nemohu ho vystát. = I can't stand him. (stát = to stand)
  15. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But that reminds me : we can also use houden like that (and then uithouden)...
  16. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    No (thank God) MG has simplified things alot, and for this specific verb the tenses are expressed quite predictably:
    «Φέρω» ['fero]: I bear/carry,
    «Έφερα» ['efera]: I carried/bare,
    «Θα φέρω» [θa 'fero] (future particle «θα» [θa] (historically a contraction of «θέλω να» ['θelo na] --> want to) + non-past form of the verb): I shall/will carry/bear,
    «Έχω φέρει» ['exo 'feri] (1st person present ind. of the auxiliary verb «έχω» ['exo] --> have + non-finite form of the v.): I have carried/borne,
    «Είχα φέρει» ['ixa 'feri] (1st person aorist of the auxiliary verb «έχω» ['exo] --> have + non-finite form of the v.): I had carried/borne,
    «Θα έχω φέρει» [θa 'exo 'feri]: I will have carried/borne,
    «Θα είχα φέρει» [θa 'ixa 'feri]: I would have carried/borne
    the irregular ancient forms of different tenses and aspects of the verb, have survived in the modern language, in compounds, e.g:
    «οισοφάγος» [iso'faɣos] (masc.) --> esophagus/oesophagus (future active form «οἴσω» of v. «φέρω» + aorist stem «ἔφαγ-» of v. «ἐσθίω» --> to eat)
    «διένεξη» [ði'eneksi] (fem.) --> dispute, collision (prefix & preposition «δια-» + aorist stem «ἐνεγκ-» of v. «φέρω»)
  17. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    In Tagalog;1.) Carry= Daladalahin/bitbitin 2.) Bear= Pasanin 3.) tolerate= tiisin/binabatah 4.)wear= Suot suot/ ibinihis
  18. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    So no resemblance or common root at all, no common idea of carrying/ bearing ? Or do I see something like a bin root in three of them? What does it mean then?
  19. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    number 1 (carry) is commonly used in holding object. number 2 is about the feelings/emotions.number 3 is about suffering in trauma or unexpected events and number 4 is about costume or make up that bring changes in physical appearance/look.
  20. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    OK, but how about the bin element in three of those words? Is that a common root or some kind of suffix, or ?
  21. aruniyan Senior Member

    Here it is in Tamil,

    carry : suma, sumai(burden)
    bear : poru (also comes close "to tolerate", and "poruthu irunthu paar"= wait and see, )
    tolerate : thaangu (also withstand)
  22. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    In arabic the first three share the same root, but not 'wear'
    حمل To carry
    استحمل To bear , to tolerate
  23. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Arabic: Could you give us the transcription ? --- How do you express wearing clothes then? How do you literally translate: I [wear] clothes?

    Tamil: could you give more uses of poru? can you use it literally? --- Thaangu: maybe there is a parallel with the English I cannot stand it. Does it somehow refer to standing? Can you use it in different ways/ meanings?
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  24. aruniyan Senior Member

    poru - literally its "not going after something or someone" so comes with the meaning wait or bear.

    - no, its not standing, its withstanding, kayiru thaangaathu -this rope cannot withstand, but its root is "to keep with in a higher position", other meaning/usage.. "avanai thaangaathe" - "dont give importance to him". or pleading to do.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  25. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thank you, very interesting additions!

    Is poru somethinglike not following? I suppose that is too literal an interpretation (I suppose you don't say: don't follow/ poru him).

    Thaangu : so a verb with a negative meaning, not a negative form.
  26. ancalimon Senior Member


    Carry: taşımak (to carry)

    Bear: katlanmak (to be folded), taşımak (to carry), çekmek (to pull), tahammül etmek (Arabic loan)

    Tolerate: hoş görmek (to see nice ~ to not to see the bad), göz yummak (to close the eye), tolere etmek

    Wear: giymek (but we can also say "to carry clothes" if we are talking about whether the clothes suit or not to the person wearing them)
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  27. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    Also تحمّل is the common in MSA and other dialects

    As إسكندراني said, they share the same root حـ مـ ل [ḥ-m-l]
    حمل /ḥamala/ = to carry
    استحمل /istaḥmala/ = to bear, to tolerate
    تحمل /taḥammala/ = to bear, to tolerate

    لبس /labesa/ = ارتدى /irtada/ = to wear
  28. ancalimon Senior Member

    Hamal is an Arabic loan in Turkish meaning "someone who carries things in exchange for money"
  29. aruniyan Senior Member

    no, its "not to go for it."

    poruthu kol = bear with it.
    poru = wait
    porumai = tolerance
    poraamai = envy (not tolerant)

    thaangu = withstand -i think has positive meaning also.
  30. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks, everyone. Just one more question regarding Arabic h-m-l: are there other uses (and meanings) of this word, not meaning 'to carry'?
  31. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    The only other word that uses that root with other meaning is حمل /ḥamal/ which means "lamb (young sheep)", other words that use that root are linked to the meanings of "carry, bear, tolerate, load":

    load (verb) = حمل /ḥammala/
    load (noun) = حمل /ḥiml/ = حمولة /ḥomoola/
    download = تحميل /taḥmeel/
    pregnancy = carrying = حمل /ḥaml/
    pregnant = carrier = حامل /ḥaamil/
    portable = carried = محمول /maḥmool/ (we use this word to mean "mobile phone" in Egypt)
    probability = bearing = احتمال /iḥtemaal/

    I also want to say that letter "h" is not the equivalent of the Arabic letter (ح (حـ. There's no equivalent for ح in the Latin script, so it is usually being replaced with "h" in Arabic loanwords in other languages. [h = (ه (هـ]
  32. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Very interesting additions, Ahmed: some of them I could link with dragen, carry, in Dutch, but not all. It seems to me that we do not linguistically express a link between loading and carrying but of course we do carry a load (we dragen een lading/ een last). Do you then use two h-m-l words next to another one?
  33. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    yes, it's ok to use two words that share the same root after each other because they are different words

    he carried a load = حمل حمل /ḥamala ḥiml/
  34. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    احتمل (iHtamal) also means 'to be possible' (e.g. احتمال iHtima:l = a possibility) and 'to have another meaning' (e.g. الكلمة تحتمل معاني عديدة - the word can [have/hold] several meanings'.
    Yes, we say Ha:mel or Hamma:l to mean the same thing. It's a good loan :)
  35. biala Member

    A small addition: Sabal (root s-v-l ס-ב-ל which generally means to bear or to suffer) means a porter, a man who's work is to carry heavy things.
    In the bible, "Sevel" also appears in the meaning of a heavy burden.
  36. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Carry, bear, tolerate: you can use suportar for any of them in Portuguese in some cases. But carry doesn't always translate as suportar. For example, when it means transport you need a specific verb. Indeed there are many, more specific words, not all synonymous, to translate each of the three words.
    Wear is a different verb. In the broadest sense you can say usar. For clothes there is also vestir, and for shoes calçar.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  37. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Suportar and maybe transportar, I guess: I recognize this difference in Dutch too, but in Dutch there is an entirely different verb for 'transport', voeren. I think we don't spontaneously associate dragen (carry, bear, ...) with voeren... I'd need more time to explain - and first perceive - the difference precisely. --- But as for wearing: do you say vestir [trousers] calçar [shoes], with a direct object?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  38. biala Member

    This is interesting, in Hebrew the root חמל H-M-L is connected to pity, to feel mercy for somebody, but the root R-H-M which also means to have mercy,
    is also connected to the word רחם Rehem, which means the womb, where a woman carries her child while being pregnant. I guess it's not a coincidence.
  39. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Interesting note! I could imagine a link between pity and carrying: have pity could be paraphrased as bear with me (though more neg.), carry me (fig.) in my distress, and indeed, womb and carrying seem semantically linked indeed. Hope someone will be able to 'enlighten' us on the etymology of both...
  40. biala Member

    And another point: one of the names of God in Hebrew is "HaRaḥaman", the one who has mercy. One of the characteristics ("Midot") of the mercy of God is considered to be "Nosse Avon" which literally means - bears/ carries the sins. In the book of Exodus 34, 6-7: " El Raḥum.... Nosse Avon".
    Here as well, mercy has a literal connection to bearing or carrying.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  41. ahmedcowon Senior Member

    "Womb" also means رحم /raḥem/ in Arabic and it's from the root رحم /R-Ḥ-M/ which means to have mercy, but "pity" in Arabic is from a different root شفق /SH-F-Q/, so the connection between "pity" and "Ḥ-M-L" is not exist in Arabic as it is in Hebrew.

    Maybe when someone carries a heavy load, you feel pity for him. Arabic (carry,load) and Hebrew (pity) are all from the root Ḥ-M-L.

    Do you pronounce "ח" as "KH" in Hebrew?
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  42. biala Member

    yes, ח is pronounced Kh. Probably I should have written "ḥ".
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  43. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Yes, exactly. Another possible verb meaning "wear", both for clothes and shoes, is levar, "take"... which as a matter of fact can in other cases translate "carry", as in levar uma arma escondida, carrying a concealed weapon.
  44. Dymn Senior Member

    Catalan, Catalonia
    1. Support, carry the weight of: suportar, aguantar
    2. Tolerate, allow the existence of something without interference, be able to accept: suportar, aguantar
    3. Carry: portar, dur
    4. Wear: portar, dur

    suportar: from Latin supporto (sub- 'under' + portare 'carry, bear)
    aguantar: from Italian agguantare 'to grab, catch' (ad- 'on, to' + guanto 'glove')
    portar: from Latin portare
    : from Latin ducere 'to lead, pull'

    1. soportar, aguantar
    2. soportar, aguantar
    3. llevar
    4. llevar

    llevar: from Latin levare 'to rift, raise'
  45. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    I am not a Tagalog expert, but I suspect not. -in is an infix and affix in Tagalog: binabatah and ibinihis seem to contain the roots bata(h) and bihis (or similar) plus infixed -in, while bitbitin seems to contain the root bit plus suffixed -in.

    There could be a relationship between the bat- of binabatah and the bit- of bitbitin, but I don't know enough Tagalog morphology to tell whether you could regularly derive one from the other.

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