Ce l'ho già vs L'ho già

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Ihsiin

Senior Member
English
Hello everyone. I'm new here and I've been studying Italian for a little while now. In my studies I was introduced to the phrase "ce l'ho già" and I can't for the life of me work out the value of the word "ce" here. Does it serve a specific purpose in this phrase, or is the phrase contextually indistinguishable from "l'ho già"?
 
  • ToWhomItMayConcern

    Senior Member
    English (US)/Italian - bilingual
    Hi and welcome to the forum :)

    The meaning is the same. "Ce l'ho gia`" is more informal, more common in speech, and more idiomatic. In my area at least, no one would say "L'ho gia`" in ordinary speech. There might be some regional variation, though.
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    Ihsiin, I have always thought the "ce" = there/here.

    Ce l'ho gia'--= I already have it (here).
    Its addition is probably to nicely balance the sentence.

    Another example is "I know" = lo so (invece di 'so"). I know (it). Often I find these additions are to make the language more musical and rhythmical but I may be wrong! Giacinta
     

    NewYorktoLA

    Senior Member
    English-the variety known as AE
    Hi Ishin,
    In order to not drive yourself crazy (because "ci (ce) will indeed drive a non-native speaker of Italian crazy), I would suggest you ignore what "ce" means in these phrases used to expressed, "I have it/one" "you have it/one" etc... Just know that this is colloquially the way of expressing "I have one/one of it/them."
    A: Cerchi un posto di lavoro? B: No, ce l'ho già'
    Ce l'ho già'/già'ce l'ho..

    This thread might help:
    http://www.wordreference.com/iten/avercela
     

    Necsus

    Senior Member
    Italian (Italy)
    Ihsiin, you can take a lokk at this thread. And then, from this thread:
    'Ci' is a pronominal particle unaccented for first plural person (us). It's direct and indirect object (ci ha visto, ci scrivono), enclitic with infinitive, gerund, imperative and 'ecco' (dirci, vedendoci, facci, eccoci); locative adverb (noi ci siamo), also pleonastic (as in c'è, c'era, c'erano, ci senti?); demonstrative pronoun (= di ciò, a ciò, in ciò, su ciò, da ciò ==> ci penserò, non c'entra); intensifier in idioms, it becomes 'ce' combined with other pronouns (farcela, avercela).
     

    cecil

    Senior Member
    USA American English
    Hi Ishin,
    In order to not drive yourself crazy (because "ci (ce) will indeed drive a non-native speaker of Italian crazy), I would suggest you ignore what "ce" means in these phrases used to expressed, "I have it/one" "you have it/one" etc... Just know that this is colloquially the way of expressing "I have one/one of it/them."
    A: Cerchi un posto di lavoro? B: No, ce l'ho già'
    Ce l'ho già'/già'ce l'ho..

    This thread might help:
    http://www.wordreference.com/iten/avercela

    I couldn't agree more about the uses of "ci." I have a follow up question that I haven't been able to find the answer to. "Ce l'ho già" seems fine if you mean "I already have it (a job)." But if you want to say "I already have one (of them)," a pencil, let's say, would we still use "ce l'ho già" or rather "Ne ho già una?"

    cecil
     

    giacinta

    Senior Member
    English
    In my opinion..If the question is "Do you have (need) a pencil?' the answer would be 'Ne ho gia' una"

    If the question is " Have you got the pencil?" the answer would be "Ce l'ho gia'"
    Hope this helps.

    Giacinta
     

    cecil

    Senior Member
    USA American English
    In my opinion..If the question is "Do you have (need) a pencil?' the answer would be 'Ne ho gia' una"

    If the question is " Have you got the pencil?" the answer would be "Ce l'ho gia'"
    Hope this helps.

    Giacinta

    From one English speaker to another, your answer makes perfect sense. Now I wonder whether any native Italian is going to have to correct us. Many thanks, Cecil
     

    Ezhevika

    Member
    Russian
    It's a grammatical construction I guess. You just need to remeber that you have to use "ce" in such frases. E.g. in Russian language we don't have auxiliary verbs, but it's never come to my mind to ask why I shoud say "do you like it?" instead of saying simply "you like it?" :):):)
    "ci" together with personal pronouns such as lo/la/li/le and verb "avere" - "ce" - has a phonetic function. At least it's written so in my book of study :))
     

    cecil

    Senior Member
    USA American English
    >>it's never come to my mind to ask why I shoud say "do you like it?" instead of saying simply "you like it?"

    Good point. [The latter phrase "You like it?" is used, though, especially when somebody makes a positive comment about something you dislike. You're surprised, so you turn to the person and say, "You like it?" "Do you like it?" doesn't quite seem fitting in this circumstance to me.] But within these brackets is really a new thread.
     

    Ezhevika

    Member
    Russian
    >>it's never come to my mind to ask why I shoud say "do you like it?" instead of saying simply "you like it?"

    Good point. [The latter phrase "You like it?" is used, though, especially when somebody makes a positive comment about something you dislike. You're surprised, so you turn to the person and say, "You like it?" "Do you like it?" doesn't quite seem fitting in this circumstance to me.] But within these brackets is really a new thread.

    Well, in fact I wasn't talking about specific usage of the expression "you like it?", but meant to say that auxiliary is always should be used when you want to ask question and by "it" I meant any thing. May be I should've written more exact example like "Do you like this book/cup/table etc.?"…
     

    cecil

    Senior Member
    USA American English
    Well, in fact I wasn't talking about specific usage of the expression "you like it?", but meant to say that auxiliary is always should be used when you want to ask question and by "it" I meant any thing. May be I should've written more exact example like "Do you like this book/cup/table etc.?"…

    But it was my point that the auxiliary verbal "Do" is not always used when asking questions. Hope I understood you.

    Cecil
     

    Ezhevika

    Member
    Russian
    But it was my point that the auxiliary verbal "Do" is not always used when asking questions. Hope I understood you.

    Cecil
    You were right saying that it's a discussion for a new separate thread. But if we get back to what I was saying in the beginning it will be that I only wanted to say that some things in a grammar of a foreign language you just have to admit and to learn. And it was the main idea... May be my example with auxiliary verb wasn't good enough.... Or I should've said that sometimes (in fact most of the time) when you want to ask a question in English auxiliary verb should be used. And I don't ask why, I just admit this and remeber to use auxiliary (when it's necessary).
    Cecil, I guess we both understand quite well what I meant let's not go into greater detail, at least not in this thread... ;)
     

    shardaneng

    Senior Member
    italian
    In my opinion..If the question is "Do you have (need) a pencil?' the answer would be 'Ne ho gia' una"

    If the question is " Have you got the pencil?" the answer would be "Ce l'ho gia'"
    Hope this helps.

    Giacinta

    1) Ti serve una penna?
    No grazie, ce l'ho già.

    2) Ti serve una penna?
    No grazie, ne ho già una.

    In my opinion are both correct, but I'd go for the first.
     

    cecil

    Senior Member
    USA American English
    1) Ti serve una penna?
    No grazie, ce l'ho già.

    2) Ti serve una penna?
    No grazie, ne ho già una.

    In my opinion are both correct, but I'd go for the first.

    Thanks Shardaneng and to all other contributors.

    Cecil
     

    Pasquale Gatto

    Senior Member
    English USA
    Hello everyone. I'm new here and I've been studying Italian for a little while now. In my studies I was introduced to the phrase "ce l'ho già" and I can't for the life of me work out the value of the word "ce" here. Does it serve a specific purpose in this phrase, or is the phrase contextually indistinguishable from "l'ho già"?

    Ihsiin,

    This thread <click here> may help you to understand also.

    PG
     
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