Cela ne s’est pas révélé lors de la formulation qui s’est faite sans intervention externe

harshduck

Senior Member
UK, English
Hi everyone,

I am really stuck by the last sentence in this paragraph – to me it seems incredibly badly written, which might explain why I cant understand it… or it might just be my poor French. Any ideas?

Par capitalisation nous comprenons ; faire en sorte que les enseignements qui ressortent de l’exercice soient traduits dans de nouvelles pratiques. En premier lieu les résultats ou conclusions en lien avec l’opportunité qui était à l’origine de l’exercice. Mais il est certain que d’autres connaissances non attendues auront été développées, elles peuvent donc également être valorisées et ce à court comme à long terme. Elles demandent de modifier certaines stratégies sachant que d’une part la logique de l’action est mieux maîtrisée ou que d’autre part certaines suppositions deviennent plus ou moins importantes ou enfin que de nouvelles se sont ajoutées. Un processus mené ou accompagné par une personne externe permet de faire ressortir par exemple certains rapports de forces déterminants. Cela ne s’est pas révélé lors de la formulation qui s’est faite sans intervention externe.

My translation of the rest of the paragraph:

By capitalising we understand: seeing to it that the lessons taken from the exercise are translated into new practices. In the first place, results or conclusions that relate to the origin of the exercise. But it is certain that other, unexpected understandings will have been developed, they may also therefore be evaluated for both the short- and the long-term. They require some strategies to be modified, in the knowledge either that the logic of action is better mastered, or that some suppositions become more or less important, or finally that new ones have been added. A process led or accompanied by an external person allows, for example, some reports on determining factors to be brought out.

Merci d’avance
 
  • clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    In your last sentence, I think "rapports" is "relationships" (among determining forces) rather than "reports". Then (loosely, without many French negatives) "That is only revealed when the question is posed by someone from outside."
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    Cela ne s’est pas révélé lors de la formulation qui s’est faite sans intervention externe.

    "However, this did not emerge during the formulation, which took place without any external input."


    But I don't see what this formulation was. A written document perhaps?
     

    clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    Cela ne s’est pas révélé lors de la formulation qui s’est faite sans intervention externe.

    "However, this did not emerge during the formulation, which took place without any external input."

    But I don't see what this formulation was. A written document perhaps?
    1. the issue of tenses is a tricky one. You are obviously correct if you take the sentence in isolation. However, the paragraph is written in a generalising tone, mainly in the present tense. So I think that needs to be maintained in translation into English. The para is not talking about any specific past event, as I see it.

    2. the WR dico has as one option for "formulation" " posing (of a question)". That seems to fit this context well.
     

    harshduck

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    This is the version I am currently using. I did initially follow clairet’s advice regarding ‘rapport’, but in the end I decided that, given the context, ‘report’ is more likely than ‘relationship’. The context is a long, long document regarding the compilation of an evaluative report, and I think that ‘formulation’ is short for ‘la formulation du rapport’ – any further thoughts on that?

    'By capitalising we understand: seeing to it that the lessons taken from the exercise are translated into new practices. In the first place, results or conclusions that relate to the origin of the exercise. But it is certain that other, unexpected understandings will have been developed, they may also therefore be evaluated for both the short- and the long-term. They require some strategies to be modified, in the knowledge either that the logic of action is better mastered, or that some suppositions become more or less important, or finally that new ones have been added. A process led or accompanied by an external person allows, for example, some reports on determining factors to be brought out. That is only revealed when reports are compiled by someone from outside.'
     

    Quaeitur

    Mod'elle
    French
    Raport in the last but one sentence is part of the expression rapport de forces (balance of power or power struggle). There are threads on this expression already.
     

    clairet

    Senior Member
    England & English (UK version)
    a general comment: the paragraph is really tough to read in English - it seems to have made it about 70% from French to English! :) I have real difficulty understanding what phrases like "the knowledge .. that the logic of action is better mastered" actually mean. I have the same problem with, in particular, "..allows, for example, some reports on determining factors to be brought out." How, in this context, do you allow reports to be brought out? Following your line of thought, are we talking about "allows...some ideas of participants/trainees about determining factors to be brought out"? I think you need to move further from transliteration. Good luck!
     
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