celui-ci / celui-là / ceci / cela

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by somanveena, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. somanveena New Member

    marathi - india
    Dear all,

    please help me to know more about the terms Celui-Ci / Celui-La / Celui / Cela / Ceux-ci / Ceux la (in french).

    Thank you

    Moderator note: multiple threads merged to create this one. See also ceci / cela / ça / ce.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2013
  2. Gil Senior Member

    Français, Canada
  3. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Hi, I understand the neuter form, ceci, is mostly used pretty informally whereas the the forme celui-ci or celle-ci replaces ceci in more formal writing.

    Is this correct?
  4. FrançoisXV Senior Member

    Français, France
    No C.E. you can't consider they are equivalent.
    Celui (qui...) = the one (who...) cannot end a sentence.
    Celui-ci, celui-là = this one, that one.
  5. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Hi, thanks for info on celui qui, celle qui ('the one who' 'the one that')
    but the word I am talking about is ceci (the neutral form where celui-ci and celle-ci are the masculine and feminine.
    I understood that ceci was more informal.

    It's worth noting that in English, 'that' is a bit more informal than 'which'


    I am wondering about ceci! Is it, like that, the more informal form???

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2013
  6. FrançoisXV Senior Member

    Français, France

    CECI is more likely to mean this, as in
    "ceci termine les votes du jury français"
    this concludes the vote of the french jury (Eurovision song contest)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2013
  7. mytwolangs Senior Member

    English United States
    One group of demonstrative pronouns is listed -
    ce, cet, cette, ces.
    Another -
    Celui, celle, ceux, celles
    Yet another -
    ceci, cela

    I know that some are masculine or feminine, but gender aside cause I know the gendered ones, when would one use each of these?

    Here is a phrase I came across - Voilà deux voitures. Celle-ci est rouge, celle-là est verte.
    Why would it not work to say - ...voitures. Ceci est rouge, cela est verte.

    Or another one, a song title "Pour ceux qui n'ont rien" Why is it not "Pour ces qui n'ont rien"?

    Well you can see my confusion about when to use these pronouns.
    Did I completely miss something?
  8. francophone Senior Member

  9. Le Bélier

    Le Bélier Senior Member

    These are not pronouns; they are adjectives. ;) Like other adjectives, they describe a noun.

    For the same reason that "this is red one, that is blue one" doesn't work in English? It's because ceci and cela are invariable (no gender agreement), and refer to something factual or some thought, but not specifically mentioned. The car is something specifically mentioned, so you must use the demonstrative adjective celle in this case.

    Because ces is an adjective and in the song title, one is not modifying a noun. Rather, one is referring to some people, therefore, a pronoun is necessary.

    It will get easier when you separate the pronouns from the adjectives. The adjectives ce, cet, celle, ces are always followed by a noun. The pronouns celui, celle, ceux, celles (sometimes with -ci or -là added) always take the place of a noun that has already been specifically mentioned previously. The pronouns ce, ceci, and cela are invariable, usually followed by the verb être.

    Bonne chance!
  10. frankofile New Member

    En lisant ce fil (?), je viens de remarquer que l'on ne dit jamais "celui-ci", "celle-ci", "celui-l?" ou "celui-ci" au *debut* d'une phrase. Alors je crois que:- on utilise ces mots seulement comme *objet*.- comme *sujet*, on dit pl?tot "CE fromage-ci" ou "CELLE maison-l?"- cw, "ceci" veut dire simplement "This", et je crois que l'on ne l'utilise que comme *sujet* ("ceci n'est pas une pipe").
  11. C. E. Whitehead Senior Member

    Etats Unis
    English, U.S.
    Le pronom "ce" s'utilise pour la plupart avec le verbe 'etre'--"C'est ca!" "Qu'est-ce que c'est?" Etcetera. On peut l'utiliser aussi avec "que"--". . . ce qu'il a dit."

    On ne dit pas "Celle-maison-la"; on dit "Cette maison-la"

    Check about.com for more information on French pronouns!


    C-est-a-dire, que, 'celle' s'utilise sans le substanfif--You use "celle" without the noun.


    "substantif'-- sorry about that

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2008
  12. Le Singe

    Le Singe Senior Member

    New York City
    English - American
    this means right here and now.
    that means somewhere else or some other time.

    in english the difference between this and that is used to distinguish distance and time. this is close and that is far.

    cette chose-ci = this
    cette chose-là = that

    in english it MATTERS which word you use while in french ce/cet/cette/ces is good enough for most things without the distinction of close and far. only when you really need to make a distinction do you need to add the "-ci" and "-là" as above. or you can use celui/celle/ceux/celles for even more distinction OR celui-ci/là for again EVEN MORE distinction.

    celui/celle = {this, that} one
    - no distinction on distance/time

    ceux/celles = {these, those} - no distinction on distance/time

    celui-ci/celle-ci = this one here

    celui-là/celle-là = that one there

    ceux-ci/celles-ci = these ones here
    ceux-là/celles-là = those ones there
  13. mec_américain Senior Member

    US, English
    Correctly or not, I always assumed that -ci is really a shortened form of "ici." Vois ici->Voici, Vois là->Voilà

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