cheese and pickle sandwich

Discussion in 'English Only' started by jacdac, Mar 14, 2019 at 4:48 PM.

  1. jacdac

    jacdac Senior Member

    Lebanese
    Having made sure he was drip fed coffee, Jim now presented him with a large cheese and pickle sandwich.
    Source: Five Bloody Hearts by Joy Ellis

    Does cheese and pickle sandwich refer to exhibit a) cheese with pickle slices or exhibit
    or exhibit b) cheese with chutney?

    Wikipedia seems to suggest the latter.

    If both, how would you distinguish?


    upload_2019-3-15_3-41-56.jpeg

    upload_2019-3-15_3-42-39.jpeg Z
    Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. entangledbank

    entangledbank Senior Member

    London
    English - South-East England
    Is Joy Ellis British (pickle is chutney) or American (pickle is gherkin)?
     
  3. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    What Wikipedia article are you looking at?
    The author is British.
    For what it's worth, the second picture shows a substance which I assume is something like "Branston pickle" which is not commonly known in the US. Unless you specify something else, AmE "pickle" is "pickled cucumber" in some form.
     
  4. jacdac

    jacdac Senior Member

    Lebanese
    Thank you.

    here’s the article.

    In BrE, how would you distinguish between the two exhibits with the same name?
     
  5. Szkot Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    UK English
    The two exhibits do not have the same name. A is a cheese and (pickled) gherkin toastie.
     
  6. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    Probably as "cheese and pickle" amd "toasted cheese and sliced gherkin" (possibly "toasted cheese and American pickle?:))
    (The Collins dictionary reflects the US comments above
    Enquiring minds will be asking whether the book's plot depends on this fine point of nomenclature difference between AE and BE (cf. jelly :)) I recall a novel (or film) in which the spy gave away his true nationality by the use of the "other" name or pronunciation :D
     
  7. heypresto

    heypresto Senior Member

    South East England
    English - England
    :thumbsup: I agree.

    But at Connoisseurus Veg, they they call it a "VEGAN PICKLE CHEDDAR AND DYNAMITE DILL PICKLE GRILLED CHEESE SANDWICH"*

    Well, they would, wouldn't they? :rolleyes:


    *Forgive the caps - I copied and pasted it.
     
  8. entangledbank

    entangledbank Senior Member

    London
    English - South-East England
    Dill pickle is another matter: a dill pickle is a gherkin here, so yes you can have pickle and dill pickle together.
     
  9. jacdac

    jacdac Senior Member

    Lebanese
    I confess my mind is reeling. It seems I have been living in another universe (if you believe in string theory). For me, exhibit a) is the cheese and pickle sandwich, and not b).
     
  10. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    Exhibit a requires the additional grilled or toasted moniker. You must have grown up in an AE universe, given your interpretation of "pickle" :D
     
  11. Edinburgher Senior Member

    Scotland
    German/English bilingual
    As a matter of fact, Branston already contains gherkin.
     
  12. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    There is a wiki on Branston (brand) - Wikipedia

    I don't think there's much doubt that the author was referring to exhibit b :)
     
  13. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    Prior to my first posting, I checked. There's no cucumber in Branston pickle.
    In AmE, gherkin is a type/size of pickle so you could have a dill pickle and gherkin sandwich.
     
  14. Uncle Jack

    Uncle Jack Senior Member

    Cumbria, UK
    British English
    In BrE, a gherkin would never be confused with a cucumber. Branston contains gherkins, not cucumbers (which I have not heard of as being pickled). Cucumbers are generally over a foot long (30 cm), and are used in salads, and also go well (sliced) with cheese in sandwiches. The Queen famously (although possibly apocryphally) serves cucumber sandwiches at her garden parties, which rather mollifies my disappointment at never having been invited. Who would want cucumber sandwiches, without cheese?
     
  15. Edinburgher Senior Member

    Scotland
    German/English bilingual
    Oh yes there is!
    I have a jar of the "small chunk" version here. It says: "Ingredients: Vegetables in various proportions (54%) (carrot, onion, rutabaga, cauliflower, marrow, gherkin), sugar, ..."
    The American version must use a different recipe. For one thing, I gather they use high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar.
     
  16. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    Everything can be pickled.

    Which of these listed ingredients is a gherkin?
    Branston Original Pickle | Branston
     
  17. AnythingGoes Senior Member

    English - USA (Midwest/Appalachia)
    A gherkin is a pickled cucumber.
     
  18. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    The "original" Branston, still imported from England has (accrding to Amazon's page ofeering it for sale)

    Apparently the US version is different :)
     
  19. Uncle Jack

    Uncle Jack Senior Member

    Cumbria, UK
    British English
    Here are some gherkins:
    [​IMG]
    Here is a cucumber:
    [​IMG]
    I would be very surprised to hear a native BrE speaker use the opposite term for either.
     
  20. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    I quoted from the .co .uk site and it doesn't include marrow (zucchini squash?) or Gherkin (???).

    Pickled cucumber - Wikipedia
     
  21. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    You do realize that there's more than one variety of cucumber?
    Pickling Cucumbers

    We call pickled cucumbers "pickles" in the same way that you call them "gherkins". Branston pickle seems to contain pickled carrots, pickled rutabaga, ... and according to Julian's site pickled cucumbers.
     
  22. Uncle Jack

    Uncle Jack Senior Member

    Cumbria, UK
    British English
    That's my point. None of them would ordinarily be called cucumbers in BrE.
     
  23. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    So in BrE, all small cucumbers are called gherkins and not cucumbers. (I seem to recall a thread in which we discovered that there is only one variety of persimmon sold in the UK so you call persimmons the name of that variety.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 6:59 PM
  24. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    Given the info on the .co.uk site noted above, perhaps the takeover by MizkanEuro has altered the recipe even though they claim they still follow the "secret" recipe! But the OP's question (what the author meant by the term) has been answered and we are wandering off-topic:)
     
  25. Edinburgher Senior Member

    Scotland
    German/English bilingual
    I wouldn't have been able to sleep tonight without having resolved the discrepancy between what's on their website and what's on the jar, so I popped into a supermarket on my way home from the theatre, and --sure enough-- the jars now on the shelf no longer have the final two ingredients in the list (that is, they agree with what's on the website). My jar will have been bought about 18 months ago.
     
  26. JulianStuart

    JulianStuart Senior Member

    Sonoma County CA
    English (UK then US)
    So it's NOT the old "secret" recipe - we should sue someone!
    However, your jar should be good for a few more years :D
     
  27. heypresto

    heypresto Senior Member

    South East England
    English - England
    As might this thread.
     
  28. sound shift

    sound shift Senior Member

    Derby (central England)
    English - England
    Not so. The gherkin-sized green gourds that my father grew outdoors were called 'cucumbers'. Maybe that's because they were not billed as suitable for pickling.
     
  29. kentix

    kentix Senior Member

    English - U.S.
    To complicate matters further.

    Food & Drinks, The Latest Food News

    Thanks to its odd appearance and elusive history, the Mexican sour gherkin is always confused with a cucumber or pickled cucumber.

    But we need to say it upfront: The Mexican sour gherkin is NOT a cucumber. Yes, they both belong to the same gourd family “Cucurbitaceae” and the gherkin is often called a “miniature cucumber” but they are from different cultivar groups. Only one species i.e. Cucumis Sativus is considered a cucumber, but the Mexican sour gherkin which is 1-3 inches in size belongs to Melothria, another genus entirely. So it is not an actual cucumber, but an honorary one.

    But it gets confusing because in America, Canada and Australia, the term ‘pickle’ is usually used to refer to pickled cucumbers. So, gherkins are pickles but pickles are not gherkins (just pickled cucumbers)
     
  30. Myridon

    Myridon Senior Member

    Texas
    English - US
    That leads to a definition of "gherkin" that involves "I wouldn't pickle it, but somebody else might." ;)
    In AmE, a gherkin (pickle) is basically a cornichon without the French pedigree (a pickle about the size of my little finger or even smaller). True cornichons (I believe) are generally a sour pickle while a gherkin can be any "flavor" - sweet, sour, dill, bread and butter, ...
     
  31. heypresto

    heypresto Senior Member

    South East England
    English - England
    And we haven't even mentioned 'wallies'.

    This will spring to mind for many BE speakers when hearing the word 'gherkin':

    [​IMG]
     
  32. sound shift

    sound shift Senior Member

    Derby (central England)
    English - England
    Maybe. But it also reflects the Chambers Dictionary's definition of a "gherkin": "A small cucumber used for pickling". We could of course eat such things in their natural, unpickled state. If I read the word "gherkin" in a BrE text, I assume "pickled", and when I use the word myself, I mean a cucumber that has been pickled. Some people say "pickled gherkin", which is either tautologous or an indication that my usage is untypical. :confused::confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 5:33 PM

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