Chicken-and-egg situation

Micky83

Member
Italian
Salve!
Che cosa significa l'espressione "chicken-and-egg situation"?
What does "chicken-and-egg situation" mean?
Thanks!
 
  • Micky83

    Member
    Italian
    Nel testo, si parlava di tecniche di accounting che dipendono dall'introduzione di determinate tecniche produttive e gestionali. Il paragrafo è:
    "Lean Accounting does not stand alone. It is enabled by lean thinking and lean production methods. Lean Accounting only works when lean processes are stable and under control. This is a chicken-and-egg situation. Lean Accounting not only needs lean manufacturing, it also facilitates lean manufacturing. We need to introduce Lean Accounting in parallel with a transition to lean manufacturing and other lean changes."
     
    Credo che sia semplicemente un riferimento alla questione se sia venuto prima l'uovo o la gallina.
    Infatti il lean accounting ha bisogno del lean manifacturing (qualunque cosa sia) e allo stesso tempo lo facilita. Così come una gallina per esistere deve venire da un uovo, ma un uovo non può esistere se non è deposto da una gallina
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Credo che sia semplicemente un riferimento alla questione se sia venuto prima l'uovo o la gallina.
    Infatti il lean accounting ha bisogno del lean manifacturing (qualunque cosa sia) e allo stesso tempo lo facilita. Così come una gallina per esistere deve venire da un uovo, ma un uovo non può esistere se non è deposto da una gallina
    Perfetto, sì!:)
    Quando diciamo "chicken and egg situation", ci riferiamo proprio a questo "dilemma".;)
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    - Why do you always come to the meeting late?
    - Because it never starts on time!
    - But of course it won't start on time if you arrive late!

    A chicken-and-egg situation is when it's difficult to distinguish between cause and effect. It can also lead to a vicious circle (if the meeting starts later and later), but the meaning isn't exactly the same.
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    A chicken-and-egg situation is when it's difficult to distinguish between cause and effect. It can also lead to a vicious circle (if the meeting starts later and later), but the meaning isn't exactly the same. That's what I meant when I replied to Crazy's post. ;)
    But is it a paradox or a dilemma, in your opinion? I thought it was more of a dilemma, but I'm not really sure. As you will see, Gandolfo says the Italians call it a paradox.:)
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    I think that if we have a serious philosophical discussion as to whether the chicken or the egg came first (and can't decide), then we're talking about a paradox.

    But when we're talking about an everyday situation and we're trying to decide which is the cause and which is the effect, maybe dilemma is the right word.

    However, looking back at the original example, I'm not sure that we can talk about "l'uovo e la gallina" in an Italian translation. I'd prefer to say something about an exchange, or interchange, between cause and effect.

    To london calling:
    That's what I meant when I replied to Crazy's post.
    Yes, I was just adding an example; I wasn't saying your explanation was wrong :)
     

    italtrav

    Senior Member
    English
    "The chicken or the egg causality dilemma is commonly stated as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" To ancient philosophers, the question about the first chicken or egg also evoked the questions of how life and the universe in general began.[1]
    Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. ...An equivalent situation arises in engineering and science known as circular reference, in which a parameter is required to calculate that parameter itself. Examples are Van der Waals equation and the famous Colebrook equation."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_or_the_egg

    To an Aristotelian, the question is misconstrued as an issue of material causality, but is easily dealt with under what often gets translated as formal cause, in which case the chicken is logically prior to the egg, in the same way as the polis is said to be logically prior to the individual. If temporal issues are at stake, it would have to be logically held that so long as there was the one, there was also the other, that they are coeval.
     

    Amelie46

    New Member
    italian
    Hi! Can anybody help me understand what Martin Scorsese says in an interview? He speaks about franchise pictures which today's multiplexes are crowded with. It is not a question of supply and demand. He says that "if people are given only one kind of thing, of course they're going to want more of that one thing... It's a chicken-and-egg issue."
    How would you translate it? E' il serpente che si morde la coda? Thank you!
     

    rrose17

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    In this case, I think this corresponds more to a vicious circle so either "un circolo visioso" or your "serpente che si morde la coda" would work, I think.
     

    ohbice

    Senior Member
    "If people are given only one kind of thing, of course they're going to want more of that one thing... It's a chicken-and-egg issue."
    Se alla gente viene offerto solo un genere di prodotto, è naturale che finiranno per chiedere altri prodotti di quel genere... è una conseguenza inevitabile, come una gallina da un uovo.
     
    Last edited:

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Se alla gente viene offerto solo un genere di prodotto, è naturale che finiranno per chiedere più di quell'unica cosa...
    Non solo, ma questo porta poi nuovamente chi produce a produrre una cosa sola, e così via in un circolo vizioso in cui dopo un po' non si distingue più la causa dall'effetto, cioè metaforicamente se sia nato prima l'uovo o la gallina (che, come detto nei post precedenti, è il senso dell'inglese chicken-and-egg situation/issue ecc.) :)
     

    King Crimson

    Modus in fabula
    Italiano
    Oddly enough, when I first read this thread's title I didn't think of "viene prima l'uovo o la gallina", but a different Italian saying involving "uovo" and "gallina", that is "meglio un uovo oggi che una gallina domani", which corresponds to "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
    And while this latter is not stated as a dilemma I do think there are circumstances where it could be seen as a chicken-and-egg situation, that is when one couldn't decide between the birds in the bush and the one in the hando_O
     

    tsoapm

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Really, I shouldn't be looking for the context myself, but since it's pretty easy to find in this case:
    Scorsese answered that question like this: People only see Marvel movies because the industry keeps moviegoers juiced on Marvel movies.

    “If you’re going to tell me that it’s simply a matter of supply and demand and giving the people what they want, I’m going to disagree,” he wrote in the Times. “It’s a chicken-and-egg issue. If people are given only one kind of thing and endlessly sold only one kind of thing, of course they’re going to want more of that one kind of thing.”
    That to me makes the whole use of the metaphor much clearer, suggesting what the cause and the effect are supposed to be from the two different perspectives.

    Do Marvel make that kind of movie because of the demand?
    Is there demand for that kind of movie because Marvel supply it?
     
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