cifra negra

ronidance

New Member
español
Hola me gustaría saber como se dice en inglés "cifra negra". Esta cifra es la diferencia entre los delitos efectivamente cometidos y los denunciados (con la premisa de que se denuncian menos delitos que los que efectivamente se cometen).
 
  • Alisterio

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I'm not sure that we have a specific expression for this (unless there is one that I'm not aware of). You might need to paraphrase it with something like "the gap / difference between crimes reported and those actually committed".
     

    Mikebo

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    La diferencia entre delitos denunciados y los cometidos no es nada más ni menos que el número (o porcentaje) de delitos no denunciados (¿verdad?). O sea, en inglés, algo así como:

    "the number/percentage of unreported crimes"
    "the rate of unreported crime"
    "the percentage of crimes not reported"

    Como ya señaló Alisterio, no parece que haya una frase hecha equivalente en ingles.
     

    lycr

    New Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    Hola me gustaría saber como se dice en inglés "cifra negra". Esta cifra es la diferencia entre los delitos efectivamente cometidos y los denunciados (con la premisa de que se denuncian menos delitos que los que efectivamente se cometen).
    Muy muy tarde, pero es "dark figure of crime". =)
     

    lycr

    New Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    No, it isn't. There is no such figure of speech in English, and if you spoke of "the dark figure of crime", no one would have any idea what you meant by it. It certainly would not be understood to mean "unreported crimes."
    You might want to Google stuff before posting. Cifra negra is a term used specifically in criminology and sociology. Google "dark figure of crime", the phrase is used for the same exact data.
    Google

    Cifra negra isn't used anywhere else but in reports about criminology, sociology or justice (law). So it isn't a common, every day phrase, you're right about that. But then again, no one else besides people in these areas use it, so it makes sense to use "dark figure of crime".
     
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    You might want to Google stuff before posting. Cifra negra is a term used specifically in criminology and sociology. Google "dark figure of crime", the phrase is used for the same exact data.
    Google

    I do not have to Google anything. I have a Ph.D. in Criminology, and I have been a police officer for more than thirty years. There is also the not-unimportant fact that I am a native speaker of English who deals with this subject daily. I can therefore say with assurance that does not need reference to Google that the term "dark figure of crime" is certainly not in common use in English (which Google itself could show you; when you put the phrase in quotes you only get 370 results...), and the overwhelming majority of native English speakers would have no idea what it meant.
     
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    lycr

    New Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    I do not have to Google anything. I have a Ph.D. in Criminology, and I have been a police officer for more than thirty years. There is also the not-unimportant fact that I am a native speaker of English who deals with this subject daily. I can therefore say with assurance that does not need reference to Google that the term "dark figure of crime" is certainly not in common use in English, and the overwhelming majority of native English speakers would have no idea what it meant.
    Wow, okay then. I'm not getting caught up in this. Clearly a police officer with a PhD in Criminology and a native English speaker would be correct over anyone else. I mean, what can you possibly not know, right? You already know everything!

    Your logical fallacy is appeal to authority
     
    Wow, okay then. I'm not getting caught up in this. Clearly a police officer with a PhD in Criminology and a native English speaker would be correct over anyone else. I mean, what can you possibly not know, right? You already know everything!

    Your logical fallacy is appeal to authority
    I certainly don't know everything. However, it is equally illogical for you to assume that I therefore know nothing. I also am quite sure that my information and experience regarding whether "the dark figure of crime" is in common use among native English speakers is superior to yours. Whether other members of this forum want to accept your opinion (that "the dark figure of crime" is a good phrase to use) or mine (that "the dark figure of crime" would be meaningless to most native English speakers, including not merely the general public, but also to most law enforcement practitioners and criminologists) is up to them -- but I think my opinion is based on a firmer foundation than your own.
     

    Oldy Nuts

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Chile
    Yo no sabía hasta ahora de la existencia de la expresión "cifra negra" para referirse al número de delitos no conocidos por las autoridades, sea porque no han sido denunciados, por que no han sido descubiertos, o por cualquier otro motivo. Y creo que GWB de ningún modo está abusando de su autoridad al citar las credenciales que respaldan sus opiniones respecto a un tema respecto al cual ciertamente tiene que saber de qué está hablando.

    Y no me extraña que no sea un término muy utilizado, tomando en consideración que se refiere a un número que es imposible conocer con un mínimo grado de certeza.
     

    Mr.Dent

    Senior Member
    English - all over the USA
    GWB and lycr are both right. The term "dark figure of crime" is used in criminology and sociology, and few people would have any idea what it means. So, it is up to the original poster to decide whether to use the term or not (if he is still around), and it is probably not a bad thing that he hears various points of view.
     

    lycr

    New Member
    Mexico, Spanish
    Yo no sabía hasta ahora de la existencia de la expresión "cifra negra" para referirse al número de delitos no conocidos por las autoridades, sea porque no han sido denunciados, por que no han sido descubiertos, o por cualquier otro motivo. Y creo que GWB de ningún modo está abusando de su autoridad al citar las credenciales que respaldan sus opiniones respecto a un tema respecto al cual ciertamente tiene que saber de qué está hablando.

    Y no me extraña que no sea un término muy utilizado, tomando en consideración que se refiere a un número que es imposible conocer con un mínimo grado de certeza.

    Las credenciales no son argumentos por sí solos, y "native speaker" no es una credencial válida tratándose de palabras técnicas o especializadas. GWB aseguró que no existía una frase en inglés equivalente o similar a cifra negra, cuando sí la hay. Quizá él nunca ha tocado el tema o lo ha leído o se acuerda de haberla leído. O quizá el término es reciente.

    Nada más para que sepan, cifra negra no es solamente "unreported crimes", en ocasiones también se consideran aquellos casos que no generaron una averiguación previa o no se les dio seguimiento (caso en México).

    La molestia fue que asegurara que no existía el término, dando a entender que me lo saqué de la manga, poniendo mi credibilidad en duda.

    Pero como señala Mr. Dent, ya decidirá la gente qué término es más claro y pertinente para sus traducciones. :thumbsup:
     
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