CIRQUE DES DESIRS or CIRQUE DE DESIRS ???

megla

New Member
Slovenia
Hello,

I hope somebody can help me with this one...
I sing in a choir in Amsterdam and we are putting up a show this summer. The board have chosen to have a title in french, and it will be CIRQUE DE DESIRS (Circus of desires, yearning).

Now, my google research on analogies showed that it should probably be CIRQUE DES DESIRS.

Does anybody know what is correct and WHY?

I would really appreciate an answer!

greetings,
Megla
 
  • Benjy

    Senior Member
    English - English
    well.. normally i would say cirque de désirs.. its undefined amount of "desirs" as such.
    cirque des désirs seems to missing something (cirque des désirs du peuple qui désire voir un spectacle par example). but i dont know if this is a specifique case of something =[
     

    Jean-Michel Carrère

    Senior Member
    French from France
    I wish I could help you, but am unable to figure out what the phrase means. Would it be possible for you to post the English translation ? It might help.
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    megla said:
    Hello,

    I hope somebody can help me with this one...
    I sing in a choir in Amsterdam and we are putting up a show this summer. The board have chosen to have a title in french, and it will be CIRQUE DE DESIRS (Circus of desires, yearning).

    Now, my google research on analogies showed that it should probably be CIRQUE DES DESIRS.

    Does anybody know what is correct and WHY?

    I would really appreciate an answer!

    greetings,
    Megla
    It would be cirque de désirs, I would say. Anything that you can think of as a "quantity" (even a "circus" of, or a "lack" of) is followed by de.

    As Benjy says, if you go on to use "des" (or du de la etc) it makes it specific "the circus of the desirs (which we talked about yesterday or whatever).
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Jean-Michel Carrère said:
    Personally, I would go for either "le cirque du désir" (the circus of desire) or "le cirque des désirs" (the circus of desires).
    Yes, I'd like to change my earlier vote! I agree, it does sound better. I suppose the inference is that you're getting all the desirs or the "archetypal" desire if you go along. It sounds good!
     

    Benjy

    Senior Member
    English - English
    mmmmmmmm.
    le cirque du désir i like but (sorry to be a pain) could you explain why des désirs is ok? because it just doesnt seem to follow the rules. i'm confused :s
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    Benjy said:
    mmmmmmmm.
    le cirque du désir i like but (sorry to be a pain) could you explain why des désirs is ok? because it just doesnt seem to follow the rules. i'm confused :s
    I fully understand - this is an area of French grammar that has given me innumberable headaches in the past, and I'm definitely still not sure of it now.

    I think that du désir or des desirs would work equally simply because you can use "le désir" as a generalisation or "les désirs". Not 100 per cent sure either though. To my non-native ears "du désir" sounds better to me than des désirs too.:(
     

    fetchezlavache

    Senior Member
    france
    Benjy said:
    mmmmmmmm.
    le cirque du désir i like but (sorry to be a pain) could you explain why des désirs is ok? because it just doesnt seem to follow the rules. i'm confused :s
    le cirque du désir (the circus of desire, gives an idea of either sexual desire, which is the most common, or of Desire in general, such as can be expercienced by Man).

    le cirque des désirs (the circus of the desires, a variety of all possible desires reunited in a circus, as a mixed salad.)

    le cirque de désirs/désir (the circus of desire(s), the circus in itself is built, sort of, with the desire(s). it's almost as if you were saying 'la poupée de chiffons'. the rags exist for the sole purpose of creating the doll. same here, the desires exist for the sole purpose of creating the circus).

    sorry for poorly worded explanations.
     

    timpeac

    Senior Member
    English (England)
    fetchezlavache said:
    le cirque du désir (the circus of desire, gives an idea of either sexual desire, which is the most common, or of Desire in general, such as can be expercienced by Man).

    le cirque des désirs (the circus of the desires, a variety of all possible desires reunited in a circus, as a mixed salad.)

    le cirque de désirs/désir (the circus of desire(s), the circus in itself is built, sort of, with the desire(s). it's almost as if you were saying 'la poupée de chiffons'. the rags exist for the sole purpose of creating the doll. same here, the desires exist for the sole purpose of creating the circus).

    sorry for poorly worded explanations.
    No, that's very clear. It makes sense it terms of the "rules" I try to formulate in my own head about how this de-du-dela-des business works!! Thanks:)
     

    Benjy

    Senior Member
    English - English
    yeah. i see the underlying logic of what you are saying.. its just the notion of "les désirs" which bugs me... i can't think why either. meh..
     

    LV4-26

    Senior Member
    Le cirque du désir would refer to "le désir" in general, as a concept, I would say.
    Le cirque des désirs refers to all the desires in the world or something like that.
    It refers to each one of all the different desires that you can imagine (desire for this, desire for that,...), hence the definite article.
    So "des désirs" is less abstract, hence more definite.
    "des désir" sounds more poetical to me. It makes me think of a fairy tale of some sort.

    EDIT : just re-read fetchezlavache's post. I'm afraid what I've said doesn't add anything you to what she has:eek:
     

    megla

    New Member
    Slovenia
    Thank you all for your replies :)

    I have to say that I'm still a bit confused...

    I agree, CIRQUE DU DESIR refers too much to the sexual desire, that's why we went for the plural...

    What we would like to express I guess that this is a circus where all different desires play a roll, (like animals and clowns in a normal kind of Circus).

    If my feeling is right, than most of you would vote for the mixed salad ///I love the comparison ;) /// that is Cirque des desirs, right?

    regrards form post "queen's day" amsterdam :D
     
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