Cleft sentence

B

BusyBee2002

New Member
Spanish - Spain
Hello everybody.
One of my advanced students writes

"It is in those extreme situations when things get to the edge and reactions appear."

I think the student wants to use a cleft sentence an it should be "that" instead of "when".
What do you think? Should I correct that?
Thanks everybody.
 
    • It sounds very literal in a Spanish student. In any case we use ´when´always referring to a time, in the sentence ´time´ is not the term implied because it refers to certain ´situations´. In my opinion I tried to use the sentence for the rest of the class to rewrite, it can enrich your students. You should instead of correcting remind them the relative clause lesson, there´s no need to put ´that´in the sentence because it can be omitted.
     
    Hi

    First of all, this type of construction continues to keep even the most ambitious of linguists and grammarians in debate.

    Depending on the context, your student’s sentence may be considered a complex cleft sentence in which the main subordinate cleft clause is only implied. The prepositional phrase along with its modifiers "in those extreme situations where things are driven to the edge and reactions emerge" becomes nominalized and functions as the complement of the non-referential grammatical subject-pronoun "It":

    —When do you become concerned?

    —It is in those extreme situations (in which)/(where) things are driven to the edge and reactions emerge [that I become concerned].

    Or, if we extend the idea, your student’s sentence may on its own constitute a cleft sentence:

    'It is in those extreme situations that things are driven to the edge and reactions emerge.'
    Let’s test the statement for cleft properties:

    'Those situations are the ones in which ....'
    'Es en esas situaciones en las que ....'

    So, unless someone proves me wrong, I feel your first intuition was correct, BusyBee.
     
    I agree with St. Nick.

    If this is meant to be a cleft sentence, a pseudo-cleft version would be:

    When things get to the edge and reactions appear is in those extreme situations.

    What does those refer to?

    Does the student's context indicate an "understood" question (e.g. the question of where you become concerned)?
     
    Last edited:
    Well, thank you St Nick and Forero!
    I see that it is not easy...

    From the student's context "those situations" refers to situations when people don't have jobs, don't have anything to eat and cannot have proper lives (sic). She is talking about NGOs, and at what point they have to function.

    Thank you again
     
    Because those refers to something outside the sentence in question, the when clause is not needed to define it, so it is most likely that the sentence is indeed meant to be a cleft sentence and when ought to be that.
     
    The BBC article was wonderful!

    Now, are these two cleft sentences right?
    a) It was last Saturday that my brother bought hisnew car.
    b) It was last Saturday when my brother bought his new car.

    According to the BBC article, b) is correct.

    But according to other grammars (i.e. Straightforwad Advanced, MacMillan; or Practical English Usage by Michael Swan) the structure is only
    "It is/was....that(who)....", so not using when, where, which...

    To make things more complicated, in A Practical English Grammar (Thompson and Martinet) these sentences appear in the relative clauses section (54), and it says that "which is not normally used here, but any of the other relatives (except what) are possible."

    Well, St Nick said it in his first response: "this type of construction continues to keep even the most ambitious of linguists and grammarians in debate." I guess he was more than right!
     
    BusyBee2002 said:
    The BBC article was wonderful!

    Now, are these two cleft sentences right?
    a) It was last Saturday that my brother bought his new car.:cross:
    b) It was last Saturday when my brother bought his new car.:tick:

    According to the BBC article, b) is correct.

    But according to other grammars (i.e. Straightforwad Advanced, MacMillan; or Practical English Usage by Michael Swan) the structure is only :cross:
    "It is/was....that(who)....", so not using when, where, which...

    That = thing/person
    who = person
    when = time
    To make things more complicated, in A Practical English Grammar (Thompson and Martinet) these sentences appear in the relative clauses section (54), and it says that "which is not normally used here, but any of the other relatives (except what) are possible."

    Maybe not in relative clauses, but possible in cleft sentences - (St Nick & Forero maybe you can help us out here?) Also note the BBC site reasoning for cleft usage:- Cleft sentences are used to help us focus on a particular part of the sentence and to emphasise what we want to say by introducing it or building up to it with a kind of relative clause. (Red bold on text is my highlight.

    Well, St Nick said it in his first response: "this type of construction continues to keep even the most ambitious of linguists and grammarians in debate." I guess he was more than right!
    Click to expand...
    He certainly was :) which is why I am relaxed with the BBC raison d'etre for cleft sentences and I try to restrict myself to that usage. I love a simple life ;)

    regards
    weeshus
     
    BusyBee2002 said:
    Now, are these two cleft sentences right?
    a) It was last Saturday that my brother bought his new car.
    b) It was last Saturday when my brother bought his new car.
    Click to expand...
    These two cleft sentences sound fine to me.

    What makes the original sentence problematic to me is that it is too easy to misread because of the use of those and when. In that sentence, changing when to that removes the problem.

    The term cleft sentence as I have seen it used (except on the BBC site) refers only to a sentence with an "anticipatory it", not to just any sentence with "the reason why", etc. Without the anticipatory it, such a sentence becomes pseudo cleft, and may use any interrogative or relative word except that.

    I believe any relative or interrogative word can be used in a cleft sentence, including which or what, and the relative/interrogative can sometimes be omitted. But I think it is important that the relative/interrogative word, or lack thereof, not confuse the reader/listener about the identity of the cleft structure.

    I hope this helps.
     
    Well, what can I say?
    Thank you all for your contributions.
    Thank weeshus and forero for your last explanations.
    I'm going to print and study everything, though, I'm not sure things are clearer now ;)
     
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