comma after introductory clause [conjunction]: When the wave..., the

A

andrzejewskil

Member
Moscow
Polish
Hi,

Here are 2 sentences, both taken from English in Mind 2, a course book for teens:

'When the wave gets closer to the coast, the ocean floor makes it grow enormously'

and the second:

'By the time it reaches the coast it has become huge'

Are these not both examples of subordinate clauses beginning sentences?
Should not comma be used in both of them?

I am Polish but have been teaching EFL for a couple of years now. Still, the punctuation system of English remains unclear to me :(

Cheers
 
    • andrzejewskil said:
    Hi,

    Here are 2 sentences, both taken from English in Mind 2, a course book for teens:

    'When the wave gets closer to the coast, the ocean floor makes it grow enormously'

    and the second:

    'By the time it reaches the coast it has become huge'

    Are these not both examples of subordinate clauses beginning sentences?
    Should not comma be used in both of them?

    I am Polish but have been teaching EFL for a couple of years now. Still, the punctuation system of English remains unclear to me :(

    Cheers
    Click to expand...

    Hi, Andrzejewskil. You have my sympathy about English punctuation. I am sure some grammarian will help you with the official answer, but I suggest you say the sentences aloud and see where you naturally make a very brief pause. That is where a comma could go. Personally, I pause for a microsecond after 'coast' in the first (longer) sentence but not after 'coast' in the second. A pause can be necessary to make the sense clear or even just for taking a breath in a long sentence. So there is more to think about than just grammatical rules. Hope this helps a bit! :)
     
    Thanx,

    It does help indeed. Actually, doing an exercise with sentences with removed commas where students would have to put the commas back in according to their pauses for a breath intake sounds like a good idea.
     
    Elwintee said:
    but I suggest you say the sentences aloud and see where you naturally make a very brief pause. That is where a comma could go.
    Click to expand...


    Hello,

    I beg to differ, Elwintee.

    Pausing isn’t a reliable guide for writers. People’s breathing rhythms, accents, and thinking patterns vary greatly.



    Yes, the sentences need the commas.
     
    The way I see it, Andrzej, is that you need a comma in the first sentence. If you read:
    closer to the coast the ocean floor
    your brain 'computes' as follows: "Just a second ~ why do I have two nouns each with its own definite article in a row? ~ that can't be right" and you 'stumble' in reading ~ it's only for a fraction of a second but it's a stumble nonetheless.
    This doesn't happen in the second sentence.

    EDIT: I agree with Elwin 100% on what he says about comma-pauses. Generally.
     
    I would put the comma in the second sentence as well. To me, there is a natural pause at that point in the sentence and I agree with Elwintree's "rule of thumb" about putting a comma at a natural pause.
     
    I have to admit, Dimcl, that I might well put a comma in that second sentence myself ~ I'm not sure now, having read it too many times:confused:
     
    I would also but the comma; however, not because there is a natural pause, but the first part seems to be a kind of introductory clause.

    Of course, I may be wrong:)
     
    No, I agree with you there, Audio. The two sentences are structurally rather different. In the first the subjects are different in each half of the sentence. In the second the subject's the same. But: in the second, despite the first half being a sort of introductory clause, the 'action' of the sentence (it seems to me) progresses from the first to the second half very smoothly and with only an infinitesimal pause.
     
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