comma before and after 'and' [conjunction]: he saw us, and, unaware

hvj2e43

Member
Hong Kong - Cantonese
This is from The Elements of Style:

If a parenthetic expression is preceded by a conjunction, place the first comma before the conjunction, not after it. He saw us coming, and unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

Do native writers really write in that way? But I think writing in this way is clearer: He saw us coming, and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.
 
  • Native writers, including this one, do write that way, HVJ. There's no reason to set "and" off between two commas. Placing a comma before a coordinating conjunction is perfectly ordinary. Although The Elements of Style has its detractors, I still think it is an excellent source of advice on writing clear English.
     
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    I don't see this form too often but there certainly isn't anything wrong with it.

    It depends on the writer I guess, where it is acceptable for some to write instead:
    'He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery greeted us with a smile'.
     
    I think it should be possible to omit the expression that comes between double commas and still have a coherent sentence. For that reason, I prefer to mark off the parenthetic expression with a comma and leave out the one before "and":
    He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.
    because:
    He saw us coming and greeted us with a smile.
    works better than:
    He saw us coming greeted us with a smile.
     
    I think it should be possible to omit the expression that comes between double commas and still have a coherent sentence. For that reason, I prefer to mark off the parenthetic expression with a comma and leave out the one before "and":
    He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.
    because:
    He saw us coming and greeted us with a smile.
    works better than:
    He saw us coming greeted us with a smile.

    Good point. The test for this sort of thing is always to see how it sounds with the parenthetic section omitted.
     
    This is from The Elements of Style:

    If a parenthetic expression is preceded by a conjunction, place the first comma before the conjunction, not after it. He saw us coming, and unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

    Do native writers really write in that way? But I think writing in this way is clearer: He saw us coming, and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

    i think you're right. i think it should be "he saw us coming, and, unaware". i'm reading the elements of style now, and this bothered me. i have definitely seen ", and," written in lots of novels. either way, i don't think it's correct to have no comma before the "and".

    sorry, i know this is an old thread!
     
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