comma before and after 'and' [conjunction]: he saw us, and, unaware

[hvj2e43]

This is from The Elements of Style:

If a parenthetic expression is preceded by a conjunction, place the first comma before the conjunction, not after it. He saw us coming, and unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

Do native writers really write in that way? But I think writing in this way is clearer: He saw us coming, and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

 

[owlman5]

Native writers, including this one, do write that way, HVJ. There's no reason to set "and" off between two commas. Placing a comma before a coordinating conjunction is perfectly ordinary. Although The Elements of Style has its detractors, I still think it is an excellent source of advice on writing clear English.

 

[/Serenity/]

I don't see this form too often but there certainly isn't anything wrong with it.

It depends on the writer I guess, where it is acceptable for some to write instead:
'He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery greeted us with a smile'.

 

[Cagey]

I think it should be possible to omit the expression that comes between double commas and still have a coherent sentence. For that reason, I prefer to mark off the parenthetic expression with a comma and leave out the one before "and":

He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.
​

because:

He saw us coming and greeted us with a smile.
​

works better than:

He saw us coming greeted us with a smile.​

 

[suzi br]

I think it should be possible to omit the expression that comes between double commas and still have a coherent sentence. For that reason, I prefer to mark off the parenthetic expression with a comma and leave out the one before "and":

He saw us coming and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.
​

because:

He saw us coming and greeted us with a smile.
​

works better than:

He saw us coming greeted us with a smile.
​

Good point. The test for this sort of thing is always to see how it sounds with the parenthetic section omitted.

 

[BBED]

This is from The Elements of Style:

If a parenthetic expression is preceded by a conjunction, place the first comma before the conjunction, not after it. He saw us coming, and unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

Do native writers really write in that way? But I think writing in this way is clearer: He saw us coming, and, unaware that we had learned of his treachery, greeted us with a smile.

i think you're right. i think it should be "he saw us coming, and, unaware". i'm reading the elements of style now, and this bothered me. i have definitely seen ", and," written in lots of novels. either way, i don't think it's correct to have no comma before the "and".

sorry, i know this is an old thread!