comma before 'and' [serial comma]: apples, pears, and oranges

M

marey

New Member
Oslo
Norway - Norwegian & English
Hi,

<<topic removed by moderator - one topic per thread>>

Also, I was wondering about comma rules... is there supposed to be a comma in front of the last "and"/"or" in for example this phrase: apples, pears(,?) and oranges.

Appreciate some exaplanations to these questions if anybody knows...

Thanks!
 
    • Hi Marey!

    I am afraid I cannot really enlighten you as to the rules applicable to the first point, but the sugested sentence gives the right impression.

    As for commas, there are two distinct rules: In BE, a comma is not placed between the penultimate item in a list and the 'and'. On the other hand, it AE it is. It is entirely dependant upon the author or audience. If it's BE, don't put a comma; if it's AE, put one in.

    Increasingly, though, BE writers are putting them in. This is only as a result of AE influence.
     
    Thanks! That means I've been right in many discussions with fellow Norwegians about this :)

    Have a nice day!
     
    Marey, the situation with commas is a bit more complicated than L'Homme Inconnu said. Here's a useful previous thread; it's from a Spanish/English forum, but only one of the posts is in Spanish.

    Loob
     
    I suggest you to read Lynne Truss' "Eats, shoots and leaves". This is a good reference book on punctuations that brims with witty anecdotes and situational humor.
     
    Moderator note:

    Hi Marey and welcome to the forum.

    Please post only one topic per thread. As you question regarding commas has been addressed here, I have removed you question regarding adverbs ("discontinued") as this has not been addressed. If you still require an answer to that question, please feel welcome to start a new thread for it.

    Matching Mole
    Moderator
     
    L'Homme Inconnu said:
    Hi Marey!

    I am afraid I cannot really enlighten you as to the rules applicable to the first point, but the sugested sentence gives the right impression.

    As for commas, there are two distinct rules: In BE, a comma is not placed between the penultimate item in a list and the 'and'. On the other hand, it AE it is. It is entirely dependant upon the author or audience. If it's BE, don't put a comma; if it's AE, put one in.

    Increasingly, though, BE writers are putting them in. This is only as a result of AE influence.
    Click to expand...

    Really? I don't do it myself, but I never knew it was an American thing. Knowing it by the name of 'an Oxford comma', I naturally had assumed it had something to do with the English town/university.
     
    It is usually said that you shouldn't put/ don't need a comma between the penultimate item and the and. I myself always think it looks a little strange if I see it done.
     
    My preference is to use the comma before and in series of three or more. Using a comma for series gives one the flexibility to indicate, by its absence, when in fact something is *not* a series, despite a superficial resemblance.

    Example:
    Years ago now, I read a review of a new edition of Robert Frost's poetry (an American poet, 1874-1963) in which an officious editor had inserted an additional comma after dark in the line from the poem "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening,"
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,"
    turning it from an adjective and an appositive(?) phrase,
    "lovely, that is to say, dark and deep,"
    to a series,
    "lovely and dark and deep."

    The reviewer found this intensely annoying. Frost used language carefully; if he had wanted the sentence to mean that, he would have written it that way.

    The comma also changes the flow of the line as spoken. Instead of lingering over the unstressed second syllable of lovely, in keeping with the lingering mood and floating snowflakes of the poem,
    "The woods are lovely, ... dark and deep,"
    the line jerks over dark, with its stop consonant K,
    "The woods are lovely, dark, ... and deep.
    Ugh.
     
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