communautarisme

Z

zyxyoo

Member
Norfolk
UK, English/Welsh
Hi!
Does anybody have a translation for the French word 'communautarisme'?

Thanks

Moderator note: multiple threads merged to create this one.
 
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    • My Collins C21 English Dictionoary lists Communautaire (italicized) as meaning supporting the principles of the European Community (now EU).

    Then we also have a word "communalism", which is distinct from "communism".
     
    communautarisme deals with communities, racial or sexual for instance. it is the attitude that some of them have, to 'ghetto' themselves instead of trying to get integrated and mingled with the rest of society...

    for instance, je peux dire que l'apparition de 'pink tv', la nouvelle chaîne télé gay, me déplaît un peu car elle ne fait qu'accentuer le communautarisme homosexuel. je préfèrerais que les télés 'hétéros' fassent moins de chichis et incluent les homos dans leurs programmes comme des gens normaux.
     
    fetchezlavache: Would clannishness be appropriate?
    clannishness
    Of or pertaining to a clan; closely united, like a clan; disposed to associate only
    with one's clan or clique; actuated by the traditions, prejudices, habits, etc., of a clan.
    Click to expand...
    A more extreme form: separationist.
    A less extreme form: identification with one's group (does not imply associating only with members of one's group)
    A related usage: community (the deaf community, the intellectual community, the gay & lesbian community)
     
    This quotation, I think, gives some idea of the meaning while at the same time underlining the fact that there is no straightforward English equivalent!
    ... a strong tradition of tolerance and respect has led to the full acceptance of all kinds of religious practices. The state does not interfere as long as law and order do not come under threat. However, this tends to create a situation where 'community-ism' ('communautarisme' as it is called in France) reigns, and ghettos can develop.
    Click to expand...
    F
     
    I've just learned a very big word today. Thanks for the explanations!!!

    I wonder when communautarism will enter the mainstream English.

    fechezlavache,

    I had a good laugh.:D
     
    C'est le fait de se sentir solidaire non d'une nation, d'un pays, mais d'un aspect personnel qui crée des groupes à l'intérieur même de cette nation et la scinde pour des raisons autres que nationales.
    Par exemple :
    Les communautarismes religieux (on ne se définit plus comme Français mais comme catholique, protestant, musulman, juif, etc.).
    Les communautarismes régionaux (on ne se définit plus comme Français mais comme Breton, Provençal ou Basque).
    Les communautarismes sexuels (on ne se définit plus comme Français mais comme hétérosexuel, homosexuel ou bisexuel).
    Ce qui amène des dissentions au sein d'un pays et nuit à sa cohésion.
     
    can somebody give me a transaltiion for 'communautarism' -- the french refer to it pejoratively as 'communautarisme a l'anglo-saxon' ..
     
    communautarisme = repli communautaire (français, breton, musulman, chrétien...) qui considére la communauté plus importante que l'individu, qui doit se conformer à la communauté.
    Le communautarisme à l'anglo-saxonne n'est pas une formulation péjorative. Il s'agit seulement de quelque chose dont nous ne voulons pas et que l'on voit couramment en Grande Bretagne et qui se manifeste de façon extérieure par un policier avec un turban ou une institutrice voilée.
     
    Merci Anne ,j'accepte la definition [sans vouloir entrer dans un debat la-dessus ! ]comment vous le traduirez donc? multiculturalism??
     
    This idea does not really exist in France. We don't use to classify people according to their religions, sexuality or tastes (although this trend is slowly appearing) which we think must remain in the private circle. Communautarisme means that people classify themselves according to some private attributes instead of feeling that they belong to a whole.
    For instance: I am French, born in Provence and I am protestant.
    Nevertheless, I place my belonging to France as my first attribute. I define myself as French first, not as a protestant woman.
    Therefore, I see other French people not as catholics, jews or muslims, but as French. If I would apply the notion of communautarism, I would feel inclined to not feel I am belonging to the same group as those people, what would lead to some form of denial of our common roots.


    My suggestion: community withdrawal

    Multiculturalim ne convient pas, car il s'agit de la forme positive (et souhaitable ! :)) de l'acceptation de toutes les différences, alors que le communautarisme est une forme extrême et négative dont les conséquences ne vont pas vers la compréhension mutuelle, mais le repli.
     
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    Sectarianism comes to mind, although it usually refers to prejudice against other sects rather than to an expression of one's own.
     
    A word occurring frequently in English-language political journalism in India is "communalism". I think this means more or less the same as "communautarisme" in French.
     
    Que veux dire cet mot? Dans une phrase:

    oui réagissons par le communautarisme à la violence et à la barbarie!

    Peut-etre, "Yes, respond to a community of violence and barbarism?"

    Merci en avance.
     
    communautarism (in English) legitimates its actions through limited religious & cultural traditions. Its adepts shurn cultural variety and live in the past, rejecting evolution and change.

    Its opposite is multiculturalism.

    In this instance, they wish to react to violence and barbarism THEIR way, not necessarily going with the law or currently accepted means.
     
    No, there is no sarcasm here, just cultural background and faith in "old ways". Whatever our perception of things, some people see things their way and reject any new means of dealing with events.

    Believe it or not, there are still some sects that are strongly convinced no man ever stepped on the moon, that the story was entirely made up, as going to the moon implies passing through heaven first... long story out of this topic ! Yet it shows the extent of communautarism's way of thinking.
     
    Bonjour à tous,

    Je n'ai pas réussi à trouver de traduction ou de périphrase (autre que "behaviour of people belongging to a community" ?!) signifiant "Communautarisme", dans son sens large.
    Quelqu'un aurait-il une idée ?

    Merci

    Vincent
     
    Hi,

    I still find it difficult to translate this 'communautarisme' word into English.
    Straight away I thought of 'communautarism' but I am not sure this word exists. However, I found a topic in which texasweed, native of (American) English, suggested it.
    Communautarism [...]

    I also found this translation (community withdrawal) from Agnès E. which I found good too, but yet, I still hesitate.

    Community withdrawal [...] (Agnès E.)

    Here is the (short) sentence I want to translate:


    Le cours de "diversité culturelle" traite de l'individualisme et du communautarisme.

    Thanks
     
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    Better late than never....

    I think "communalism" might be closer; it is widely used in South Asia, and in the social sciences. Its meaning is probably the closest (from the analyses offered by the Francophones here).
     
    The word in English is COMMUNITARIANISM and not communautarism. That is a "Francissisme".

    You can check the wiki article on it when you google the word. It explains the concept of     COMMUNITARIANISM which is essentially what communautarisme is in French.
     
    communitarianism is not a frequently used word in English and if I were to read it I wouldn't neccessarily understand it right off.

    I think sectarianism is the only option - or "sectarian tendencies". This only works in some cases though.
     
    KatishaKat said:
    The word in English is COMMUNITARIANISM and not communautarism. That is a "Francissisme".
    i cannot post urls as a junior member. But you can check the wiki article on it when you google the word.
    it explains the concept of     COMMUNITARIANISM which is essentially what communautarisme is in French.
    Click to expand...

    I checked out the wiki article because I was surprised to see communitarianism suggested as a translation for communautarisme. And despite the fact that it is linked as an equivalent term on wikipedia, the two terms are clearly not equivalent. The French term, as made clear in this thread, carries with it much more negative baggage. It seems to connote only that which is often inappropriately attributed to the political philosophy of communitarianism. I don't think that this is a good translation at all.
     
    Hi everybody!

    I'd like to find a translation for the French word "communautarisme" which means the will not to get integrated in society but to stay and live with the people of the same nationality, origins or even sex.

    What about "clannishness"?

    Thanks! :)

    (I'm actually studying an article about Barack Obama and a trend the journalist calls "the new Black nativism..")
     
    "Communautarism" is usually a semi-equivalent to "multiculturalism" - the difference being that the latter has the supposed positive connotation of "celebrating diversity", whereas the former definitely has a pejorative connotation, of clannishness etcetera as suggested above.

    Note that the terns are converging, perhaps. The Anglo world increasingly describes multicultural policies as having failed, whereas French political debate increasingly capitulates to communautarist arguments.
     
    C'etait utilisé dans le contexte suivante:

    Sihem Habchi, la présidente du mouvement "Ni putes, ni soumises" lance un appel pour la laïcité et la mixité face à la montée des communautarismes et des oppressions contre les femmes.

    C'est dur pour moi dans ce cas de trouver une definition proche. Mes tentatives: conventions, cultural norms....Je ne sais pas! :)
     
    [...]

    J'ai lu l'ancien fil, et je ne pense bien que "clannishness" est le meilleur choix... Je suis pret a utiliser le mot "marginalisation". Apres tous, quand on se separe, est-ce que c'est le meme chose q'une marginalisation? Oui? Non? Cést encore difficile de savoir les cotes de ce mot communautarisme.

    ok, marginalisation c'est pas le meilleur choix - en effet, c'est presque une blague pour les personnes les plus liberals. J'ai trouvé des autres infos sur cette ideologie, et communautarisme a beaucoup des cotes différents, et traductions indépendants, qui sont plus liée a votre ideologie plus que rien d'autre. Au meme temps, je suis encore intéressé par autres explications/traductions.

    Merci merci! Enfin, je suis content avec "societal separation" ou meme "partial sectarianism", les deux sont assez proche. J'ai déja pensée du sectarianism, mais tout seule, le mot c'est un peu trop fort.
     
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    En français, communautarisme est toujours négatif. De plus, nous avons le terme multiculturalisme en français, ce qui nous permet de l'utiliser à souhait :)
    Lorsque l'on oppose intégration à communautarisme, c'est que l'on critique un système où les communautés vivent côte-à-côte, et non pas ensemble. C'est très visible au Royaume-Uni. Je ne veux pas pour autant dire que la France est un modèle d'intégration...
    Maintenant que le contexte est explicité -crois-tu que "chauvinism" conviendrait?
    Merci!
     
    Ok! Dans ce contexte, enfin de garder la connotation négative et pour être parallel avec le mot 'integration,' je suggère:

    While France advocates integration, England finds cultural separatism to be perfectly acceptable.
     
    I worked in the race relations industry in England for fifteen years and never heard of the words communalism or communitarianism until reading this thread tonight.

    It seems to represent what I would have described in the 1980s as separatism, ethnic separatism or (in everyday English) clannishness. Separate development is what the South Africans used to call it (apartheid in Afrikaans) but I think that goes beyond an idea to become a set of political and social actions.

    I'm not at all sure that its opposite is multiculturalism but perhaps integration? I would certainly not try to encourage the use of the words communalism or communitarianism in modern English -- far too similar to others in form not to produce confusion.
     
    "Ethnic separatism" seems best.
    Ethnic background is probably the largest determinant of cultural differences in the UK.
     
    Face aux préoccupations soulevées par la résurgence de certains communautarismes

    Due to anxieties brought about by the growth in certain groups/communities.

    Communautarisme parle des differents groups dans la societe, n'est-ce pas? Ou est-ce qu'il y a un sentiment plus fort que je comprends pas? Le texte que je lis s'agit du débat sur l'identité nationale en france....


    Merciiii : )
     
    Tout à fait, le communautarisme c'est en gros : "chaque individu appartient à une communauté ethnique, sociale ...".
     
    Le terme "communautarisme" désigne le fait, pour une partie d'un groupe (ethnique ou religieux) donnée de vivre replié sur elle-même et isolée du reste la société dont elle fait partie.
     
    Je conseille de voir cette page de Wikipedia concernant le concept de communautarisme.
    En effet ce terme a été exploité ces dernières années à des fins politiciennes en France, dans le but de stigmatiser certains groupes (un groupe en particulier, celui des musulmans pour ne pas le citer) et son sens subit un glissement, à tel point que nombre de mes compatriotes l'emploient systématiquement de façon péjorative, alors qu'il n'a rien de négatif en soi.
    Repli communautaire/communautarisme est une collocation devenue trop banale dès qu'il est question d'appartenance à la communauté musulmane.
     
    Keith Bradford said:
    I worked in the race relations industry in England for fifteen years and never heard of the words communalism or communitarianism until reading this thread tonight.

    It seems to represent what I would have described in the 1980s as separatism, ethnic separatism or (in everyday English) clannishness. Separate development is what the South Africans used to call it (apartheid in Afrikaans) but I think that goes beyond an idea to become a set of political and social actions.

    I'm not at all sure that its opposite is multiculturalism but perhaps integration? I would certainly not try to encourage the use of the words communalism or communitarianism in modern English -- far too similar to others in form not to produce confusion.
    Click to expand...

    "Communalism" and the idea of "communal violence" are well-established in English usage and beyond being affected by anyone's encouragement or lack of it. I am about to use "communalism" as a translation for "communautarism" and I'm grateful to this thread for reminding me of the word that was on the tip of my tongue...

    That said, it's true that the race relations industry, for example, doesn't talk of "communalism" in the UK. The equivalent manifestation here would have been "Sectarianism" in Northern Ireland. Contrary to what seems sometimes to be assumed in France, I don't think we really have that much "communautarisme" in the UK. Which is not to say that the society isn't fragmented or that people don't identify with different groups, because they do, but the fault lines are too many and various to fall into simple "communalism".
     
    How about "culturocentrism"? That might keep the heavy negative connotation of ethnic and racial groups only sticking between themselves
     
    This word "communautarisme" has been appearing more and more often in the press (and I am writing in 2014, ten years after the other postings on the subject were made) with relation to the current rows in France over sexual preferences, ethnic groups, religions and so on.

    One recent article deplored the creation of "la France des communautarismes", for example. I looked the term up on Wikipedia in French which said that it originally came from US sociological lingo. The English Wikipedia mentioned "minority groups", which I find closer to the current concept than communities, which is an innocuous and vague term in English.

    Since the real bone of contention is the growing allegiance of the previously patriotic French people to some particular interest, I would say that the term can only be translated by a phrase such as

    "the breaking up of the nation into minority groups"
    or
    "the rise of minority group interests above the goals of La République"
    or even
    "the Balkanization of France into clashing minority groups".

    None of this may be acceptable to translators, but at least it may help understand what the French media is trying to say!
     
    lorenzogranada said:
    None of this may be acceptable to translators, but at least it may help understand what the French media is trying to say!
    Click to expand...

    On the contrary, "minority interests" is an a term very well adapted to many contexts of "communautarisme" and precisely the kind of thing that is acceptable to translators in my view. Speaking as one. So thanks for that.
     
    The French have always been so (rightly) proud of everyone just being a citoyen of the Republic, and now they're forced to accept people having other "particularist" loyalties. Hence the underlying bitterness in this use of "communautarisme".
     
    texasweed said:
    communautarism (in English) legitimates its actions through limited religious & cultural traditions. Its adepts shurn cultural variety and live in the past, rejecting evolution and change.

    It's opposite is multiculturalism.

    In this instance, they wish to react to violence and barbarism THEIR way, not necessarily going with the law or currently accepted means.
    Click to expand...

    I don't agree it's opposite is multiculturalism. "Multiculturalism" is the idea that immigrants to a country should not be obliged/encouraged to take on all the habits and culture of the home country but it's fine for different cultures to live side by side. Opponents of it would argue that multiculturalism leads to something like "communautarisme" (ie. people not integrating, and keeping to others with the same culture). I think 'sectarianism' isn't bad, but I agree I can't think of one perfect term that means exactly the same thing as the French.
     
    orlando09 said:
    I don't agree it's opposite is multiculturalism. "Multiculturalism" is the idea that immigrants to a country should not be obliged/encouraged to take on all the habits and culture of the home country but it's fine for different cultures to live side by side. Opponents of it would argue that multiculturalism leads to something like "communautarisme" (ie. people not integrating, and keeping to others with the same culture). I think 'sectarianism' isn't bad, but I agree I can't think of one perfect term that means exactly the same thing as the French.
    Click to expand...

    Whether the one leads to the other in practice is debatable, but as bits of language the two necessarily have very different meanings. Something that is "multi" can't, by definition, apply to a homogeneous group. It refers to the functioning of a society that consists of people with diverse identities. The focus is on the whole as the sum of its parts.

    Conversely, "communautarisme" is about one or more individual, fairly homogeneous groups turning inwards and focusing on themselves and their own interests. The focus is on the attitude of a faction.
     
    I didn't say I personally necessarily think one leads to the other, I just said I wouldn't put it that communautarisme is the "opposite of multiculturalism", that's all.
     
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