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constantlyconfused

Senior Member
English - British
Les membres de la ligne hiérarchique ont également le droit de constater une incapacité de travailler et, le cas échéant, d’interdire au
travailleur de commencer ou de continuer à travailler.
Le travailleur écarté sera informé des possibilités d’assistance existantes.
Compte tenu de la situation concrète (culture) de l’entreprise, l’employeur considère que les points de départ et les objectifs de la politique
(décrits ci-dessus) :
ne doivent pas être concrétisés
.

A preventive policy for alcohol and drugs at work. At the moment I have translated the final phrase as "... do not need to be given pratical form/realised". That sounds to me as thouigh the employer is saying that he has this great policy but sees no need to actually implement it. Have I misunderstood?
 
  • j-p-c

    Senior Member
    "Ne doivent pas être concrétisés": "Must not/should not/..../ be implemented".

    I understand that: the hierarchy has the right to determine that a worker is incapacitated etc..., and that in view of the actual situation (culture) of the company, the employer considers that the premises and objectives of said policy must not be implemented.

    I do not understand equating "actual situation" and "culture".
    I find it strange to say that the "premises and objectives" must not be implemented, when it is in fact the "policy" that must not be implemented.

    Hope this helps...
     

    j-p-c

    Senior Member
    On second thoughts, I'm afraid to mislead you because the original text confuses me.

    I'm even wondering if the text is not in fact critical of the hierarchy/employer.

    It's not clear at all what is meant by "les points de départ" or how "ils ne doivent pas être concrétisés".

    The more I re-read it, the more abstruse it seems. No wonder you're not getting many answers... : )
     

    Seeda

    Banned
    法语 / French (FR)
    It has to be said the document you're dealing with is unnecessarily wordy and convoluted.
    The copy I found online continues:
    [...] les points de départ et les objectifs de la politique (décrits ci-dessus)* (* biffer la mention inutile) :
    - ne doivent pas être concrétisés (développés);
    - doivent être concrétisés (développés) [...]
    This would tally with jpc's "implemented". Les points de départ seem to refer to prepatory work done to help prevent drugs & alcohol consumption. This is expanded on earlier in the document.
     

    Phil512

    Senior Member
    Français - Belgique
    That sounds to me as thouigh the employer is saying that he has this great policy but sees no need to actually implement it.
    ...but sees no need to actually implement it for the time being and because the actual situation does not require it, or that the employer doesn't want to push things further.

    Yes, there are two cases in that brochure (written by the CNAC, probably).

    The employer must always have a policy regarding the use of alcohol and drugs (it's the Belgian law about safety and health, called since some time, loi sur le bien-être au travail)
    The practical document contained in the brochure in question gives the employer choices to do things or not to do some things depending on the actual situation present in the company, within in the framework of their general policy regarding that subject.
    "Not to be implemented" seems to be the translation here, indeed. It's when the situation is satisfactory or when the employer has decided not to go further within the policy he has defined.

    If I haven't been clear enough in the beginning, and if you want to understand the logical meaning of what you're translating and not having the impression that there is a contradiction, you are invited to quote exactly (possibly via an attached document), what you read or link us to that particular page. As Seeda points out, there should be two columns or options.

    Another way is that Seeda gives us the exact references (or link) of his findings because i admit that I did not find them after a rather brief search in the CNAC's document. But I am sure he's right. Seeda please, would you lead us to the text (quote your source) ? Also, I might have read the wrong document or missed a paragaph of that LONG text . Thanks in advance.
     

    Seeda

    Banned
    法语 / French (FR)
    @Phil512 Les liens vers la page du document ne marchent pas ; il faut chercher sur Google : "l’employeur considère que les points de départ et les objectifs de la politique" (avec les guillemets).
     

    Phil512

    Senior Member
    Français - Belgique
    Yes, Seeda, thanks....I had done that with more words and it did not succeed. I arrived in the CNAC's document about the same subject and containing interesting expansions.
    But you are right right down the line : it's in the LONG Codef "règlement de trsvail". You were courageous !
    And I confirm your answer and my explanations.
    Les membres de la ligne hiérarchique ont également le droit de constater une incapacité de travailler et, le cas échéant, d’interdire au travailleur de commencer ou de continuer à travailler.
    Le travailleur écarté sera informé des possibilités d’assistance existantes.
    Compte tenu de la situation concrète (culture) de l’entreprise, l’employeur considère que les points de départ et les objectifs de la politique (décrits ci-dessus)* (* biffer la mention inutile):
    □ ne doivent pas être concrétisés (développés);
    □ doivent être concrétisés (développés) dans la mesure où leur réalisation le requiert; à cet effet, les mesures concrètes suivantes seront prises notamment en collaboration avec les services (interne et externe) pour la prévention et la protection au travail:
     

    j-p-c

    Senior Member
    Once again, I should point out that it's Belgian French (although that doesn't seem to have helped jpc!).
    Constantlyconfused, there is no such thing as Belgian French. : )
    We have a range of colorful expressions and turns of phrase, but they don't turn up in this sort of litterature.
    (Unfortunately; they might make it a little less obscure.)
    You guys are expanding more talent in translating it than the author has in writing it !
     
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