correct pronunciation of כלב''ו preceding loans

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by trigel, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    What are the vowel changes/lenitions that are supposed to occur when a כלב''ו clitic is attached to:
    *a loan with a shva on the first letter (example: טְריגונומטריה): ke, le, be, ve -> ki, li, bi, u?
    *a loan beginning with a בּ/כּ/פּ (examples: בילי, פיצה): lenite the ב/כ/פ?
    *a loan beginning with a כֿ/פֿ (examples: כימיה, פילוסופיה)
    *does a loan beginning with בומ''ף trigger ve -> u? (regardless of whether פ is dageshed or not)

    Do all the normal rules hold for the loans as well?
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  2. C_J Member

    Depends on the word. In case of the newer ones, such as those that the Hebrew morphology doesn't apply to them, there is no need to change the default vocalisation, nor change the daggesh. After all, what's the point to apply those rules when it disregards all the others?

    Old loanwords, or newer ones that fit the morphology, require that all rules be applied to them.
  3. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    So for instance "mora letrigonometrya", "Germanya nilxama beBritanya, veBritanya nitzxa", "Exad mixromozomey hamin sheli hu Y", "mi-Amerika", "mi-Rice" stays that way?

    "Old" refers to borrowed before when?
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  4. GeriReshef

    GeriReshef Senior Member

    mora litrigonometria מורה לִטריגונומטריה (li instead of le before שווא)
    germanya nilxama bibritanya ubritanya nitxa גרמניה נלחמה בִּבּריטניה וּבְּריטניה ניצחה (bi instead of be before שווא, u instead of ve before שווא and בומ"ף letters)
    Exad mixromozomey hamin sheli hu Y (correct)
    meamerika מֵאמריקה (me instead of mi before האח רע letters - אותיות גרוניות)
    mi-Rice (?)

    As C_J has sayed- britanya will not turn into vritanya.

    My answers are according to the rules,
    though most of the people will not follow them..
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  5. C_J Member

    I wasn't aware that there were rules, I thought it's left for personal preference?
    It' not like this creates pronunciation difficulties in modern Hebrew, after all we now have words like קורנפלקס/קורנפלור with three null shwas...
    However, perhaps there are some cases that disambiguation is needed.

    By old I mean before the restoration: like נמל, המנון, סיסמה,דוגמה, פרגול, פומבי, פרהסיה, גזוזטרה, פכסם etc.
  6. GeriReshef

    GeriReshef Senior Member

    Just to be on the safe side- I will check it again later.

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