Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Dec 26, 2012.
How do you translate that please?
Dutch: oversteken (across, over + go/..)
"traverser la rue" (literally: cross the street)
Or across-going/ turning literally (tra-verser). Thanks!
לחצות - colloquially pronounced lakhtzot, formally should be lakhatzot - strict use for crossing the thing between -> two points that have a gap/something between them; you cross the river, road, line, border, side. it can also be used to cut thing in half, cut bread in two.
there is also לעבור laavor, which means to pass to point b(without importance of point a), or pass a test, it really acts as pass in english.
across = عبر [‘abra] (across the street = عبر الشارع [‘abra ash-shaare‘])
crossing = عبور [‘uboor]
the verb "cross" = يعبر [ya‘bur] (In Egyptian Arabic, we use the verb يعدي [ye‘addi] for "cross")
Hebrew: interesting distinctions - and both implying some difficulty, I guess... I am surprised about the cutting though. Does the root have any equivalent in English, do you think?
Arabic: I recognize the same root in /abra/, /uboor/, and /yabur/, but is the underlying idea the one of some kind of cross (X)?
přejíti, přecházeti = pře- (trans-) + jíti/choditi (to go on foot, to walk);
«Διασχίζω» [ði.a'sçizo] (for its definition and etymology see here)
But then: does it mean something like splitting the road, etymologically?
Could be, yes. But when we cross the road aren't we splitting it up in two halves?
What difficulty implying is there thomas? In hebrew it doesnt bear a cutting connotation, nor splitting, kh - tz-h is more like to cross/pass the "wall" blocking my passage.
No, the underlying idea is exactly the same as what "arielipi" wrote in the following quote
Thanks a lot, all of you. It is simply my problem: I think I have that mental image of crossing (X), and that I cannot really let go of that... worldview. I might be narrow-minded in this respect (aaaarrrrhhh), but I am willing to learn - by getting involved in WR for example. (I just thought of this: the 'over' prefix in Dutch etymologically refers to height. So one could think of crossing by passing over (above) something, whereas crossing the street does not of course refer to any jumping, nor is it somehow associated with it, as far as I can see... Don't know whether there are remains of this use of 'over' in Dutch...)
I suppose the Slavic languages will have something like Czech here, with a prefix meaning something like 'through'.
that is just it: semitic equivalents do not see it that way, as cross is to get over something; the english view as i understand it is that cross takes it as if the thing im crossing has an importance, thus im crossing the street, and not passing on it.
Russian has a verbal prefix that accounts for crossing something, the prefix is "пере". As they usually cross a street by foot, the verb that the prefix is added to is "ходить". So, "to cross the street" is "переходить улицу". One could "пересекать улицу" as well; "пересекать" is a generic verb that means any object crossing.
But /pere/ does not imply going round, does it (thinking of Greek 'peri-')? What else can you cross? Could you cross plans (thwarting them)?
No, it does not. But it can refer to selecting each item out of a set, one by one.
"Перечеркнуть планы": the root in this verb refers to making lines with a pen. "To cross out the plans"
Hi, Thomas. In Polish, Lithuanian and Russian the verbs used do not have anything to do with the cross. Przejsc in Polish, pereiti in Lithuanian and perehodit (переходить) in Russian, but also another verb can be used peresiekat (пересекать) which comes from cutting, I think -- like you would with a sword, not really anything to do with a cross.
@Liliana: that is an interesting note, indeed. We always think we understand or 'know' the word, and then think we can extend the use the same way we do it in our own language --- but we cannot, or at least we often cannot.
But then it means: forget about the plans, I suppose. I think of a context where we have plans, and where our partner/ ... has planned other things, which then interfere with our plans. In Dutch doorkruisen would imply some kind of collision and the impossibility to go on. Does that sound like your meaning?
No, it means that something destroyed the plans for unspecified reasons, "deleted" them, so to say; it cancelled them.
There is a similar word in Polish -- pokrzyżowalo (plany). Something got in the way and destroyed my plans.(cross- krzyż stem)
In Swedish it's gå över gatan. (to go across the street)
In Filipino crossing the street is pagtawid sa kalye
A very similar Norwegian translation is "gå over gaten."
I'd like to ask: what are your associations as regards the meaning of 'over' here and in general? Something like 'above' [an obstacle] or more like 'across'? IN Dutch the meaning that I associate with 'over' is for example 'over a fence' (over de afsluiting).
I suppose 'sa' is 'over'. How else can you use it? Is it like across (straight line crossing the straight road) - or do you have other associations? Is pagtawid a very general verb?
my Tagalog translation for "crossing the street" is "Pagtawid sa Daanan". In The case there is overpass, we use "pagdaan sa overpass or pasong ibabaw". When passing through the tunnel, we use "lumagos sa lagusan o pasong ilalim".But when passing through the obstacle like fence, we use "Sumampa sa bakuran".
So the sa implies some kind of 'trans'-movement, I suppose: beyond, very broad as such. I still don't know what verbs you are using: what do they mean?
Sa is "to" in English. Crossing (to) the street= Pagtawid sa Daanan.
In other case "sa" can be "in" ; in the corner= sa tabihan/gilidan. Tagalog omits the article"the" in many grammars. The verbs i used are ;1.) Tumawid= to cross (by)? 2.) Dumaan= to pass through 3.)Lumagos= to pass through (below) 4.)Sumampa= to leap above
Hi, Thomas. the Swedish över does not have anything to do with the cross. I think it is a cognate of over. (like in "go over the bridge").
Thanks. It resembles our over - but in Dutch it can also used when referring to speaking about things. With you too?
Well, yes, but you can also discuss things over a cup of coffee. Wouldn't it be similar? It might not in fact -- I think it has the function of about in your example.
Separate names with a comma.