Czech/Polish: Vesna znamená jaro

Thomas1

Senior Member
polszczyzna warszawska
I came across this post of Jana's in one of the threads submitted on this forum, I would like to translate it into Polish and see how well (or bad :D) my comprehension of Czech is. Could anyone please check my work? This is my first time when I'm translating (and reading as well) Czech text (I have never learned Czech grammar either) so please don't be very hard on me while correcting my mistakes :) If you don't know Polish, please put down the translation of the text in English and then I could compare it with my translation and see the results. The underlined words are the ones I don't understand.

Ahoj Vesno,
s radostí Ti napíšu něco česky [...]
U nás vesna také znamená jaro. Je to krásné slovo, ale bohužel se používá jenom v poezii.
Co děláš? Já jsem studentka. Včera jsem udělala poslední zkoušku:) a teď mám prázdniny.
Jana
http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=84314&postcount=14

Cześć Wiosno,
Z przyjemnością napisze Ci coś po czesku
U nas wiosna to takie ... . Jest to ładne słowo, jednakże obecnie używa się go tylko w poezji.
Czym się zajmujesz? Ja jestem studenką. Wczoraj zdawałam ... egzamin a teraz mam wakacje.
Janka

I have some questions as well:
I guess 'vesna' is just a nickname and is not a name in Czech, isn't it?
ted' do you put an apostrophe in this word or it's just a typo? If you do, what is it for?
How do you translate Jana into Polish/English?
What do mean the underlined words, please?

Thanks in avance,
Thomas
 
  • Auri

    Member
    Poland
    Cześć Thomas1!
    Znam czeski tylko z telewizji, więc niewiele Ci mogę pomóc, ale wydaje mi się, że "posledni" znaczy "ostatni" i to nawet pasuje w tym kontekście. Zdaje mi się też, że przez apostrof oznacza się zmiękczenia, ale głowy nie dam. Pozdrawiam
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Auri said:
    Cześć Thomas1!
    Znam czeski tylko z telewizji, więc niewiele Ci mogę pomóc, ale wydaje mi się, że "posledni" znaczy "ostatni" i to nawet pasuje w tym kontekście. Zdaje mi się też, że przez apostrof oznacza się zmiękczenia, ale głowy nie dam. Pozdrawiam
    Ahoj Auri,

    vítám ve fóru! :)

    Your head will remain where it is: Your undestanding of Czech is excellent. :thumbsup: At first, though, I wanted to correct "ostatni" because I was misled by its false cognate. The Czech word "ostatní" means "inny" (remaining, other etc.). :) But then I checked it to find out that you were right: I was referring to the final exam of my study program (it does not necessarily follow from the text that it was such an important exam, it could well have been just a last exam in one particular semester).

    However, let me introduce some clarity into the apostroph thingy. We rarely use apostrophs in Czech, both standard and colloquial. What looks like an apostroph in teď is actually a "háček". I think you must have noticed letters with a háček in many Czech words: ě š č ř ž ď ť ň. Normally, it is written like "ˇ" but in "high" letters (t, d) we write it almost like an apostroph.
    t with a háček: ť
    t with an apostroph: t'
    I am sure I would catch an apostroph instead of a háček even in a normal-sized text.

    For the sake of completeness: In all capital letters, the háček is written normally: Ě Š Č Ř Ž Ď Ť Ň

    Generally, Auri is right about the pronunciation - it makes the letter softer. Well, but not everyone would consider our "ř" a softer form of "r", right? ;)

    If you are aware of the Hungarian pronunciation, you can think of "teď" as of "tegy". :) Alternatively, you probably know that Hungarians call your country Lengyelország - the "gy" sound is like our "ď". The most common way to explain the pronunciation of ď is to transcribe it like "dy(e)" or "di(e). While approximately true, it makes foreigners believe that the sound of ď is composed of two separate sounds.

    Jana
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Thomas1 said:
    Ahoj Vesno,
    s radostí Ti napíšu něco česky [...]
    U nás vesna také znamená jaro. Je to krásné slovo, ale bohužel se používá jenom v poezii.
    Co děláš? Já jsem studentka. Včera jsem udělala poslední zkoušku:) a teď mám prázdniny.
    Jana
    Cześć Wiosno, I wouldn't translate it because it is her name
    Z przyjemnością napisze Ci coś po czesku Looks fine but to be on the safe side: does z przyjemnością mean gladly, with pleasure?
    U nas wiosna to takie :cross: też ... znaczy wiosna. Jest to ładne słowo, jednakże obecnie most likely wrong, bohužel = unfortunately używa się go tylko w poezji.
    Czym się zajmujesz? Ja jestem studenką. Wczoraj zdawałam ... ostatni egzamin a teraz mam wakacje.
    Janka Very common in Slovakia, not much in the Czech Republic.

    I have some questions as well:
    I guess 'vesna' is just a nickname and is not a name in Czech, isn't it? Vesna is an old-fashioned name in my country. I guess it wasn't terribly popular even in its best days. It has a meaning: Spring. But people would laugh if you used it in normal speech. It sounds very poetic.
    ted' do you put an apostrophe in this word or it's just a typo? If you do, what is it for?
    see above
    How do you translate Jana into Polish/English?
    English - Jane, and also Joan is sometimes listed as an equivalent
    Polish - my Polish friends call me Janeczka... if it helps :)

    What do mean the underlined words, please?
    see above

    Thanks in avance,
    Thomas
    A remark on bohužel: I was slightly surprised that you didn't get it. Well, the word "niestety", which I learned when replying to your post ;), is very different. The literal "translation" would be bogużal. Let me know whether it rings a bell.

    I guess you didn't use a dictionary to translate my message. Please czech ;) the Czech section of the Slavic resources. Apart from many English<-->Czech dictionaries, you will find a Polish<-->Czech, too. I cautiously set my hopes low, but I was proven wrong - it is far from poor! It would be comfortably sufficient to get through my post. If not, you can avail yourself of the English ones. They are admittedly a nightmare for foreigners because the output always consists of a handful of unstructured synonyms which leave you without a clue about when to use which correctly. The problem should be negligible for a speaker of a similar language, though. :)

    Looking forward to more Czech questions! I will gladly repay. ;)

    Jana
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Jana337 said:
    Z przyjemnością napisze Ci coś po czesku Looks fine but to be on the safe side: does z przyjemnością mean gladly, with pleasure?
    Yes, it does.:)

    Jana337 said:
    U nas wiosna to takie :cross: też ... znaczy wiosna. Jest to ładne słowo, jednakże obecnie most likely wrong, bohužel = unfortunately używa się go tylko w poezji.
    Jana337 said:
    A remark on bohužel: I was slightly surprised that you didn't get it. Well, the word "niestety", which I learned when replying to your post , is very different. The literal "translation" would be bogużal. Let me know whether it rings a bell.
    It was the first time I saw the word reading your post, and I had never heard it before either (I even looked up in the dictionary :) and -- no results).
    As for the word niestety, you're right, it is very different. I'm afraid too different to use it (at least in this context). Well, it all depends on what you mean, if you're a little bit sorry that the word vesna is not used in everyday Chech niestety could be emplyed. :) IMHO, jednakże obecnie would make do. As you wrote bohužel means unfortunately, and jednakże obecnie could be a Polish rendering of it. Literary, in English it could be translated: but/however/nevertheless nowadays (I added nowadays, sine I had a hunch it's a kind of obsolete word). What do you think now?

    Jana337 said:
    I guess you didn't use a dictionary to translate my message. Please czech ;) the Czech section of the Slavic resources. Apart from many English<-->Czech dictionaries, you will find a Polish<-->Czech, too. I cautiously set my hopes low, but I was proven wrong - it is far from poor! It would be comfortably sufficient to get through my post. If not, you can avail yourself of the English ones. They are admittedly a nightmare for foreigners because the output always consists of a handful of unstructured synonyms which leave you without a clue about when to use which correctly. The problem should be negligible for a speaker of a similar language, though. :)
    Yes it is true I didn't use dictionary, but I did it on purpose. I wanted to see how much I could understand Czech without looking up words in a dictionary. I went to the site which has Polish<>Czech dictionary to czech ;) it out, typing in bohužel I found some more words that are very similar to Polish :
    The first word is very similar to ours (the given translation), and of course it sounds as it were a diminutive, as many Czech words in Polish. The second was fitted, I guess, only to Czech and Polish spelling/pronunciation (I'm almost sure they have the same origin). Same holds for the saying, it is absolutely understandable for Polish who will surely make out the sense.

    Jana337 said:
    Janka Very common in Slovakia, not much in the Czech Republic.
    Do you mean that the Slovaks use Janka and the Czechs rather do not?

    Jana337 said:
    How do you translate Jana into Polish/English?
    English - Jane, and also Joan is sometimes listed as an equivalent
    Polish - my Polish friends call me Janeczka... if it helps
    Yes, Janeczka it helps, let me show you how the Polish use/change your name:
    Janina-this is basic form of this name, it's a rather formal use
    Janka- this one is used when you Jana and I think it would be an equivalent of Tom (if I may compare :))
    Janeczka is a dimiunitive, mainly used when you call a little Jana or when you really like Jana (who may also be a little older lady, not just a child), it's also very polite form.

    Thank you Janeczka and Auri for explanations,
    Thomas
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Thomas1 said:
    It was the first time I saw the word reading your post, and I had never heard it before either (I even looked up in the dictionary :) and -- no results).
    I didn't mean to insist that my literal translation existed in Polish:) I hoped it could help convey the meaning.
    As for the word niestety, you're right, it is very different. I'm afraid too different to use it (at least in this context). Well, it all depends on what you mean, if you're a little bit sorry that the word vesna is not used in everyday Chech niestety could be emplyed. :) IMHO, jednakże obecnie would make do. As you wrote bohužel means unfortunately, and jednakże obecnie could be a Polish rendering of it. Literary, in English it could be translated: but/however/nevertheless nowadays (I added nowadays, sine I had a hunch it's a kind of obsolete word). What do you think now?
    Ah, yes, got it. :) Thanks for initiating me into jednakże obecnie. I could not pin it down. The most irritating thing about similar language is that you read "jednakže obecně", which are both valid words in your own language - and it just won't make sense! :D
    The first word is very similar to ours (the given translation), and of course it sounds as it were a diminutive, as many Czech words in Polish.
    Funny - to me it is Polish words that sound like diminutives.
    Do you mean that the Slovaks use Janka and the Czechs rather do not?
    Slovak friends call me Janka, Czech friends almost never. But it could be just me. I'd like to hear other Czech opinions.

    Yes, Janeczka it helps, let me show you how the Polish use/change your name:
    Janina-this is basic form of this name, it's a rather formal use
    Janka- this one is used when you Jana and I think it would be an equivalent of Tom (if I may compare :))
    Janeczka is a dimiunitive, mainly used when you call a little Jana or when you really like Jana (who may also be a little older lady, not just a child), it's also very polite form.
    For the sake of completeness: The basic form of my name is Jana and it doesn't sound too formal (or, again, to my ears only? ;)) and the diminutives would be Janinka and Janička.

    Thank you Janeczka and Auri for explanations.
    Rádo se stalo, Tomášku, a těším se na další polsko-české konverzace. :D

    Jana
     

    DaleC

    Senior Member
    t' and d' are "soft t" and "soft d", respectively, which are found in all Slavic languages except Polish and Belarussian (where they have shifted to c' and dz', respectively).

    It is possible that the articulation of Czech t' is in between that of Hungarian 'ty' and Russian t' (ть). But it is not identical to either. In the Czech t', the tip and rim of the tongue touch the roof of the mouth (the tongue tip seems to point straight forward, but I have never been able to assure myself of this). In the Hungarian 'ty', the tongue arches extremely, so that the tongue tip/rim touch the bottom of the mouth, well below the bottom of the lower teeth. The same description would apply to the voiced counterparts, Czech d' and Hungarian 'gy'.

    Jana337 said:
    If you are aware of the Hungarian pronunciation, you can think of "ted" as of "tegy". :) Alternatively, you probably know that Hungarians call your country Lengyelország - the "gy" sound is like our "d". The most common way to explain the pronunciation of d is to transcribe it like "dy(e)" or "di(e). While approximately true, it makes foreigners believe that the sound of d is composed of two separate sounds.

    Jana

    In the international computer character set, Czech t' and d' have their own symbols. Both symbols use the apostrophe, but the apostrophe is pushed closer in to the main letter.

    The Slovak alphabet has t', d', and l'.
     
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