French to English dérogatoire

Dictionary entry: dérogatoire

nferrara100

New Member
English - United States
I'm not a fluent French speaker so this may be stupid, but many of the references I see to "dérogatoire" don't in any way match its current translation as "derogatory". In English "derogatory" has a negative connotation, but this does not appear to carry over in French. In some cases Google Translate translates it as "exempt", which I think should be an alternative meaning on Word Reference. "Exempt" is already included as part of a "Formes composées", but it holds that meaning even outside the composed forms, for instance "Attestation de déplacement dérogatoire." You're not doing something wrong by completing your attestation, you're just exempt from staying at home.

Merriam Webster has a good summary of how the word changed after it was adopted by English:
Definition of DEROGATORY

Thanks for your time and sorry if I'm missing something basic.
 
  • Maître Capello

    Mod et ratures
    French – Switzerland
    Good point.

    The EN-FR s.v. derogatory is correct:
    derogatory,
    derogative
    adj
    (insulting, pejorative) (remarque)désobligeant, dénigrant adj
    (remarque)peu flatteur, peu flatteuse loc adj
    (terme)péjoratif, péjorative adj

    But the FR-EN s.v. dérogatoire is indeed inaccurate and misleading:
    dérogatoire adj(qui enfreint)derogatory adj
    Il y a une clause dérogatoire dans ce contrat.

    The sample sentence also misses an English translation. I suggest:
    dérogatoire adj(qui enfreint)
    (qui constitue une dérogation, une exception)
    derogatory adj
    escape, notwithstanding adj*
    Il y a une clause dérogatoire dans ce contrat.
    There is a notwithstanding clause in the contract.
    There is an escape clause in the contract.

    * However, I couldn't find a true adjectival sense in regular dictionaries for "notwithstanding", which is normally an adverb or conjunction.
     
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    Michelvar

    Quasimodo
    French / France
    Welcome to the forum, nferrara100 :)

    Being exempt from something can be, indeed, related to the idea of "dérogatoire", but "exempt" can not be considered as a direct translation of "dérogatoire".
    You are right, though, as my brilliant colleague Maître Capello already underlined, the "derogatoire" page needs some corrections.
     

    swift

    Senior Member
    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    I agree with your overall statement, @nferrara100. I think you will be happy to know that our teams have been reviewing a set of terms and phrases needing either translation or revision in the light of the COVID-19 crisis. One of the terms is attestation de déplacement dérogatoire, which requires a special translation and not a word-for-word one.

    I agree with @Michelvar that exempt may not be the right translation. What do you think about exonerating? In some situations, dispensation can be used as an adjective or as a noun in combination with other terms that describe what kind of dispensation it is.

    :idea: Derogating, overriding and opt-out just came to mind as well!
     
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    nferrara100

    New Member
    English - United States
    Thanks, everyone! "Exempt" was my best guess, but I'm not surprised you have better ideas. "Exonerating" would make sense to me sometimes, but it seems this word is very dependant on context.

    As for the example sentence by Maître Capello, the English translation is a bit clunky. I'm not sure if "notwithstanding" would be the correct word there, so maybe a different example sentence entirely would be a good idea if you decide to go with "notwithstanding".

    There is a notwithstanding clause in the contract.
     

    DrD

    Senior Member
    Dictionary Editor
    England English
    Hello all,

    Thanks for this discussion. The translations did indeed need some work. Dérogatoire is a word I've been seeing a lot this year! I've made some changes and hopefully this page will be looking a little better next time the dictionary is updated.

    @Lacuzon il me semble qu'il vaudrait peut-être mieux avoir clause dérogatoire (opt-out clause, escape clause) comme forme composée. Qu'en penses tu ?
     

    Lacuzon

    Senior Member
    Dictionary Editor
    French - France
    Bonjour,

    I added clause d'exception as an entry and modified dérogatoire as follow:


    dérogatoire adj(qui constitue une exception)
    Les candidats qui seront majeurs dans l'année sont autorisés de façon dérogatoire à s'inscrire avant leur anniversaire.
     

    Nanon

    Senior Member
    français (France)
    dérogatoire adj(qui enfreint)
    (qui constitue une dérogation, une exception)
    derogatory adj
    escape, notwithstanding adj*
    Il y a une clause dérogatoire dans ce contrat.
    There is a notwithstanding clause in the contract.
    There is an escape clause in the contract.

    * However, I couldn't find a true adjectival sense in regular dictionaries for "notwithstanding", which is normally an adverb or conjunction.
    Je crois bien que ce sont des canadianismes (on trouve même la « clause nonobstant »...) : Clause nonobstant - Assemblée nationale du Québec).
     
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